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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:14 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:50 am
Posts: 81
Location: Western Pennsylvania
BigSpoonie wrote:
polywad6963 wrote:
No offence was taken at all from your post. I am in the Phoenix area, shooting season from October until May. Number of shooters in the class isn't the issue, the issue is needing 90s in D class when they must have an idea how they shoot! Known ability has to be raised, even if it is their first 100 targets, when you are in a race for HOA, a note should be sent to NSCA or something stating that this person is not at all reflecting the class that they are in. I am only 36 and took me 4 years to punch out of E class due to this reason, and when I get to D, all new members are put in D. I know some people only shoot the local smaller shoots as they are big fish, don't shoot regionals as the ego or whatever get hurt. I know that i will shoot 50s at a regional and also know 60 may win it and not a 188 for a main shooter in D.


Just out of curiosity, how much time and money have you invested in lessons with a good coach? How many clubs do you shoot tournaments at? Just your local club?


Out of curiosity checked 3 past Arizona shoots. A State shoot, a Copper State open and Fiocchi Cup. Class D was won in all three with scores in the 70’s and punches were there to be had.




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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:31 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5710
Maybe he went to one of those shoots where friends and relatives keep score?


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:33 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:50 am
Posts: 81
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Skeet_Man wrote:
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That’s mean, perhaps the NSCA should come up with a sensitivity booth at all big blasts to put an end to class discrimination. Give it a catchy name. Something along the line of a “Feelers Booth” and spend good money on a problem that doesn’t exist.

I hope they also include nationality training. I feel offended they never give any recognition to us Scotch/Irish potato eaters. Every shoot I go too, almost universally you hear about some great Dago restaurants.


Last edited by Battue0626 on Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:52 am 
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 5:51 am
Posts: 31
Location: League City, Tx
lt0026 wrote:
Maybe he went to one of those shoots where friends and relatives keep score?


A guy who won D class a couple of weeks ago at a local NSCA pull your own/score your own put up a 72. Just yesterday at a shoot that had refs on station he managed to shoot just a 29. :lol: :lol:

EDIT: His first two registered shoots.

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Last edited by SeTex on Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:53 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:30 am
Posts: 117
Location: Migratory
lt0026 wrote:
Maybe he went to one of those shoots where friends and relatives keep score?


Battue made a good point, so I looked at Winscore, sorted for the state of Arizona.

Following are the winning scores in D class at ALL shoots this year:

56, 67, 72, 63, 93, 69, 64, 142/200, 75, 84, 80, 139/200, 177/200, 56, 56, 58, 64, 68, 57, 155/200

That one outlier score of 93, at a club called Picacho, was a guy with a whole 500 lifetime targets, starting in March of this year, and according to the Member Lookup function on the NSCA page, self declared up to B class after that shoot, the 3rd of his life. The 177 is an SCTP kid out of Minnesota, so must have been visiting.

It certainly doesn't look like you need to shoot in the 90's to get a punch in Arizona. Looks like high 60's will get you a punch most of the time.

My point before was, if you're not willing to take some lessons and improve your skills, or go shoot other clubs, the occasional new guy isn't your problem.

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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3184
Skeet_Man wrote:
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You’ve confused “Butt Hurt” with just plain common sense.

But, that is a neat form. Funny.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:26 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:26 pm
Posts: 20
Location: IL
BigSpoonie wrote:
My point before was, if you're not willing to take some lessons and improve your skills, or go shoot other clubs, the occasional new guy isn't your problem.


Amen. Nice to see some facts thrown out.

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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:29 pm 
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You know what Abe Lincoln said ..."72% of all statistics on the Internet are made up."

John Quincy Adams told me he'd never had an accident except that one time he laid down his hog and got a load of road rash. (true story)

Almost all posts here are full of mistakes , or what we call in court "lies."

Carry on.

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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:56 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:26 pm
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Location: IL
sera wrote:
Almost all posts here are full of mistakes


Consistency is key :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:23 pm
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Location: Phoenix AZ
What's next? Gender neutral class, Non-Binary class, and so on. God Lord guys why worry about if a lower class should be called a lower class. We all started in the lower classes and many of us worked our way up and some of us went back down. Does everyone think shooters are all going to be butt-hurt because they are a lower classed shooter. Or in my case no class whatsoever!!


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:50 am
Posts: 81
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Maybe a "feeler" class....Then you can place yourself on the board based on how you felt you shot....


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3184
sportclay100 wrote:
What's next? Gender neutral class, Non-Binary class, and so on. God Lord guys why worry about if a lower class should be called a lower class.


OK, glad you asked.

This all start from another thread, where it was asked "what can we do to support lower class registered shooters".

It was presented as a business like question. And someone responded, "Start by not referring to them as lower class". I thought that made a lot of sense. Make your customer feel as comfortable as you can. Good idea.

This started out as a business question for getting and keeping new shooters. Not referring to them as "lower class" makes a lot of sense.

But, then some brought in the PC factor, like you just did.

You asked "Good Lord guys, why worry about if a lower class should be called a lower class?"

Well from a business model standpoint, leaving out the term "lower class" when referring to shooters in A, B, C, D, and E Class makes a lot of sense. Think about that for a moment, rather than doing your usual trolling around, looking for someone to gig.

From a PC standpoint, I couldn't give a rat's patootee about it. Sporting Clays is a business for many people. Making good business models for growth and customer appreciation is always smart.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
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Battue0626 wrote:
Maybe a "feeler" class....Then you can place yourself on the board based on how you felt you shot....


Your sarcasm is getting old, and stale. And, I might add, down right stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:50 am
Posts: 81
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Mule Driver wrote:
Battue0626 wrote:
Maybe a "feeler" class....Then you can place yourself on the board based on how you felt you shot....


Your sarcasm is getting old, and stale. And, I might add, down right stupid.



I was more than willing to leave you alone....However, Since you couldn’t restrain yourself, it’s typical of do-gooders, so no surprise there..

Name me one shoot that they advertise: “This shoot is open to all, even you lower class shooters.” Name one where your ill conceived business model mentions any of the classes as “lower class” in any way a reasonable person would consider it derogatory?

Stupidity? You shot right up to Master class again.


Addition: “Reasonable person”

If fact many shooters remind me of HIPPA regulations. You can’t ask about their conditions without their permission.. Yet they sit and talk to each other and mention their hemorrhoids along with their latest knee surgery. Talk to a shooter long enough, and more often than not they will offer up their class without asking. “I only shot a 73, but I’m only in C class.” “ I shot an 81, I’m hoping it might hold up in D.” Ya, right most are really offended by the current situation..Find another windmill.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3184
For some reason you keep making this into something it’s not. It was, and still is, a business building question. You know, ways to treat people right and make them more comfortable. Nothing more. Yet, you’re incapable of grasping that. You’d rather play you child mind games, and think you’re being funny.

Nor does this go on at any shoot, but it does go on in print. We all know that. Your example is Master Class stupidity. You coined that term, and now you get to wear it.

So, now that you’ve burnt up your sarcasm game, what do you want to refer your latest post as? How about total ignorance? That works well for me. Fits you extremely well.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:43 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:50 am
Posts: 81
Location: Western Pennsylvania
You should try to come up with your own comebacks, instead of rewording mine.. then again, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....

Believe me, my work has made me acutely aware of grasping how to make others comfortable..

Now please continue to stomp your feet in a hissy fit, it amuses me.....


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:44 pm 
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Mule Driver wrote:
It was presented as a business like question. And someone responded, "Start by not referring to them as lower class". I thought that made a lot of sense. Make your customer feel as comfortable as you can. Good idea.



If you have a "customer" who's ego or mentality is so fragile they go to pieces because they are grouped into "lower class" that's the kind of customer you don't want anyways; it is incredibly doubtful they will be able to safely handle a firearm to begin with. Consider it trial by fire, if you can't hang GTFO and don't let the door hit you. I'll bet that most clubs don't want people that get their fee-fees hurt over colloquialisms, they are the ones that are going to nitpick and complain about every little thing.

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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:50 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:50 am
Posts: 81
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Skeet_Man wrote:
Mule Driver wrote:
It was presented as a business like question. And someone responded, "Start by not referring to them as lower class". I thought that made a lot of sense. Make your customer feel as comfortable as you can. Good idea.



If you have a "customer" who's ego or mentality is so fragile they go to pieces because they are grouped into "lower class" that's the kind of customer you don't want anyways; it is incredibly doubtful they will be able to safely handle a firearm to boegin with. Consider it trial by fire, if you can't hang GTFO and don't let the door hit you. I'll bet that most clubs don't want people that get their fee-fees hurt over colloquialisms, they are the ones that are going to nitpick and complain about every little thing.


Worth a repeat....but if they are safe for the most part will be tolerated.

An example of how it works in the real world.... one club allows my hunting Dog in the clubhouse. In fact a few do. Thus he is in the clubhouse, most often in a kennel. Unless the workers take him for a walk. Some don’t, so he isn’t. At one of them that does, some guy says I don’t like that Dog in here. The owner said will the choice is yours, to stay or go.. but the Dog stays. And if I would have been present would have removed the Dog out of respect for management. A couple of them are highly successful operations that are extremely customer oriented. Have yet to hear any offended by the SC classification system. My Dog yes, SC classification no.

Addition: For Mule Driver..we both know where the other stands on this issue. So, I will reply to others if I desire..you can stamp your feet all you want..but I’m done with you personally.
It is your privilege to comeback if you so desire. However, for myself there is little to be gained in continually going back and forth with you. Especially in light of the fact you can’t hang.
au revoir




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