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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:57 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1326
Sera i hear you and it seems that is the predominate opinion on the issue of prizes. I believe this is a poor incentive for clubs to share money with NSCA and think some uniformity in this area would serve the org well.

BUT what about the other two items? What does NSCA actually DO to find out what's best and how to attract/keep new shooters?




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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:02 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3177
mwr01 wrote:
I doubt that most shooters care much about class packaging. I do think that “lower-class” shooters do care, at least a little bit, about how the classes work.

A previous poster commented on systematic under-classification. It is a fact of life in D and C class (and E when new shooters started there). The response was that he didn’t work hard enough, travel enough, or spend enough money on the game. That is far more off-putting than being referred to as lower class. Enough of that and our “lower class” guy decides that he really doesn’t need the abuse. He lapses his NSCA membership and shoots “Hunter” (if he bothers with tournaments at all).

NSCA recognizes that under-classification of accomplished “new” shooters is a structural defect in the punch system; that’s why the Known Ability rule exists. We may be unable or unwilling to enforce it, but it costs us nothing to at least acknowledge the problem when someone mentions it.


Excellent post. Your example of “the response was that he didn’t work hard enough, travel enough, or spend enough on the game. That is far more off-putting than being referred to as lower class” really hits the nail on the head. But, it seems that any problem has a number of components, and they all seem to feed on each other.

I’ve always felt that a major component to a successful business is to always listen, and then to know when to react and or change something OR ignore it and move on. My grandfather used to tell me that “your ears will often lie to you. Your eyes sometimes do, too. But your nose never lies. If you find that something stinks, it always does.” That saying has been something I’ve often looked back on.

The other thing is something that’s currently very popular with marketing folks is “branding”. It’s a powerful tool, and will stick and hang on when applied to a sector of a market. Ask any recent MBA graduate about how important branding is to know about and understand. It can work both for and against you.

In my mind’s eye, “lower class” takes on a meaning and image that kind of stinks. Some apparently think it’s ok. So be it.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:15 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1326
'lower class' is just fine Mule. it's a competition and Sera has spoken truth when he said shoot more if you wanna get better. folks that can't handle that sort of reality won't be around for long no matter what you say to them.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:16 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:09 pm
Posts: 3241
Howdy, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls! I've been getting a bit of hate mail (my feelings are hurted) and so I simply want to state for the record battue0626 is not me. Though I appreciate Bat',s style and humour. Continuing to do God's work I see. So y'all can leave me in peace.

I'm still trying to figure out which hand to draw with on a bow and arrow. I think the pointy end goes away from you. Baby steps. So please don't disturb my peace. Thank you in advance.

Carry on.

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*Disclaimer* Not financially liable for spilled coffee on computers or keyboards if you read my posts.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:18 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5870
How’s the mastery of archery coming along?


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:32 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:09 pm
Posts: 3241
Rooster booster wrote:
How’s the mastery of archery coming along?


Awful. It's hard as hell doing barebow. Clays are easy. So y'all quit whining. I made some money, so I can afford to buy Kleenex. If I place again I may be able to afford a crying towel. Maybe. My big joy is a that when I lose, I lose for something. Gots to have principles. And that makes it all worthwhile!

Anyways, I promised not to post here. So let's get the emails stopped and I will be on my merry way. I wish you all the best. May you figure out "If the gun shoots where you look", "How to fix Masterclass, "and which choke do I use?"

_________________
*Disclaimer* Not financially liable for spilled coffee on computers or keyboards if you read my posts.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:48 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5870
So glad you figured out where Nirvana is:-). And don’t pop up looking for attention, no one cares;-)


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:23 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3177
birdhunter39 wrote:
it's a competition and Sera has spoken truth when he said shoot more if you wanna get better. folks that can't handle that sort of reality won't be around for long no matter what you say to them.


Of course, if one wants to get better they need to shoot more practice and good competitions. No one is saying that’s not true.

But when there’s a reasonably question raised about an issue, jamming down that down their throats isn’t the best answer.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:40 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 2470
Location: KS
birdhunter39 wrote:
Sera i hear you and it seems that is the predominate opinion on the issue of prizes. I believe this is a poor incentive for clubs to share money with NSCA and think some uniformity in this area would serve the org well.

BUT what about the other two items? What does NSCA actually DO to find out what's best and how to attract/keep new shooters?


My impression is that the Association's focus is on serving and retaining current active (i.e., high volume) members. Beyond the "first year free" program, they seem to be letting new shooters find their way in on their own.

I would be interested in hearing Sera's observations as well.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:42 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 8995
Location: Rochester, NY
Everyone wants to win. Few want to work for it.

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Ian Smingler
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Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:58 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:50 am
Posts: 81
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Some of the top group are shooting 40,000 to 50,000 shells per year counting practice. I hear more than a few say they are born with skills most don’t have. Yea they do, it’s called effort. And that thing called money unfortunately.

Any that practice seriously and pay their dues with normal ability should blow thru the D, C and B rather quickly. Staying competitive at the big shoots in AA and Masters is were the “shooters” separate.

Then age kicks you, and you have to complete against the McGuires and Duffy’s in Veterans, because the young bucks have essentially kicked them of the top 10 to 20. But they are still out there digging for every target.

You gotta have the heart for it. Other than just accept it as a weekend of screwing around and accept the class you let yourself reside in.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:48 pm 
Field Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:23 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Phoenix AZ
Battue0626
Thumbs up on both of your replies to Mule Driver who just cannot stand the heat in the kitchen apparently. He says he isn't PC'd but you could have fooled me--carry on!


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:00 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3177
sportclay100 wrote:
Battue0626
Thumbs up on both of your replies to Mule Driver who just cannot stand the heat in the kitchen apparently. He says he isn't PC'd but you could have fooled me--carry on!


One has to keep in mind that you're so very easy to fool.


Last edited by Mule Driver on Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:26 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 13426
birdhunter--NSCA w/ pretty uniform consistency awards the big shoots to clubs who have proved that they can put on a big shoot well. This is a huge benefit to shooters who want to attend big (well run) shoots.

There's no way for the NSCA to "insist" that a club do any special thing. NSCA controls the rules only. If the club fails to pay the fees for the shoot , NSCA nullifies the results. NSCA is not a huge monolith that forces anything on anyone.

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Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:42 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5593
The NSCA is a paper tiger. Big Ben proved that. They are decent at keeping records and collecting fees. Period. Remember the NSCA can't do anything without approval from the NSSA.http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/wp-content/up ... harter.pdf
The NSSA Executive Committee has final say on everything.
From the Charter: Notwithstanding the terms of this Charter or the NSCA Rules and Regulations, ultimate approval
and authority with respect to all governance and operations of the NSCA will rest with the NSSA
Executive Committee.


Last edited by lt0026 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:49 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5870
lt0026 wrote:
The NSCA is a paper tiger. Big Ben proved that. They are decent at keeping records and collecting fees. Period. Remember the NSCA can't do anything without approval from the NSSA.http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/wp-content/up ... harter.pdf
The NSSA Executive Committee has final say on everything.


What is it you’d have them do?, practice for you, carry your gear?


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:11 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5593
Rooster booster wrote:
lt0026 wrote:
The NSCA is a paper tiger. Big Ben proved that. They are decent at keeping records and collecting fees. Period. Remember the NSCA can't do anything without approval from the NSSA.http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/wp-content/up ... harter.pdf
The NSSA Executive Committee has final say on everything.


What is it you’d have them do?, practice for you, carry your gear?


Keep those Rose colored glasses on and go pay the fees and be quiet. Your schtik is getting old.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:29 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5870
Just stop. All you do is b***h about, and question the NSCA. So, what’s your plan to fix things? You seriously appear as taking no joy from the NSCA or registered shooting, so why continue?

As Sera has pointed out repeatedly, they are a governing body, not the be allowed, end all.

In 35 years as a life member, and having several interactions with the folks at NSCA, I think they do a pretty damn fine job, especially the MANY volunteers who do much, for little.
Mid you think that’s rose colored glasses, fine, but if you knew me, I doubt I’d be described that way.

Build your platform, describing your changes, if they’re remotely worthwhile, I’ll help you get elected to whatever position you decide on.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:33 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 13426
Lt, I served on the board and have a lot of friends still there. NSCA ain't perfect , but they do an OK job for an almost all volunteer unit.

I assure you that everyone on the board is devoted to the game and each in their own way is trying to do a good job.

PLUS they are it. No other entity offers what they offer. And the target tax is tiny.

Some well meaning people (incl friends of mine) have tried a few new things. And the good clubs are working daily to make things better.

It ain't all bad. Buck up.

_________________
Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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 Post subject: Re: A better way to refer to Shooters in A, B, C, D, or E Cl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:35 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2688
Location: Central Maine
The best parts of the entire shooting experience occur because of the clubs and shooting grounds that throw our targets and the other shooters we share it all with

NSCA is just the basic structure behind the scenes. In my opinion the NSCA does a decent enough job providing base services and record keeping. I don’t look for anything more than that.



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Browning Citori Crossover Target

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