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 Post subject: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:00 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:11 pm
Posts: 144
Location: DFW, TX
I wanted to see if anyone had similar experiences or input on getting the best out of aging eyes on the sporting clays field.

I am coming up on 7 decades in age (hard for me to believe that) and my vision isn't bad but it isn't perfect. I have always been plagued with a lot of "floaters" in my eyes and the doctors have always said sorta "gee you have a lot of floaters." To which I respond "what can I do about them". The response is always... "nothing". So we start with that. I never miss an eye doc appointment.

Years ago I used to fly for a living and even with 20/20 vision it used to strike me that my crew mate could usually spot traffic long before I could. Weird.

My vision can be corrected and I do wear a right contact lens to shoot which corrects my R eye to better than my L eye to offset a left eye dominance tendency, but I do not have any current cross dominance problems, I shoot now happily with both eyes open. Uncorrected I have sort of a natural mono-vision: my R eye works great for close up vision and the L eye works for distance - fine for everything I do BUT shooting.

I typically shoot with clear lenses as I have to balance getting enough light into my eyes to see the target well, and clear lenses have been that compromise for the last several years. I've *thought* I generally see worse with a colored lens.

Even though my vision is a bit weak I can score well with almost any presentation on the field I can see (long or short, fast or slow) that isn't an "eye test" where I just can't see the the target. I see 20/20, but I can miss stuff because of light and contrast I'm guessing the issue is.

There are three situations I have found that I really struggle with seeing the targets.

1. Birds in heavy shade of trees, often worse in bright weather - I have trouble getting a lock on the target at all because I just can't see it until a rush near the break point. In my part of Texas presentations buried in tree shade is not the norm thankfully, but this does occasionally happen, and I can leak a few off my score card here.

2. Targets that stay below the horizon in early light or rising sun behind them. My game plan with these is to move on and come back to this station when the sun is an hour or so higher. Lucky if I can do this and when I do I can usually pick up all the targets on the card and not miss.

3. Last weekend was a huge cloudless sunny day, really bright. At the end of the shoot after about 230 targets in, one of the last super sporting stations had a long high incoming looper maybe 50 out, looping 50 high, and dropping 20 away in front, pretty fast, orange on edge, that I just could not see against the blue sky to until it was in the ground. Most of the entire flight was up in the blue sky. Not being able to see the thing at all was not the norm for me and maybe tired eyes contributed. The target, if I could see it, would have been a fairly easy X for me. I'll go back this week in different light and see/break it every time. But not last weekend.

Getting old (eyes) sucks :) If you're read this far I appreciate it, and I'm looking for suggestions and ideas. I get how to watch for birds, where to look, how to prepare, I have shot a lot of targets and can punch pretty reliably. But I am trying to figure out if I need to think differently if there are lenses or anything that can make "eye test" presentations pop out better with crappy eyes without darkening my ability to see. I have about every Randolph Falcon lens made in my bag, including their CMT (the lens that I probably should have pulled out on #3 last week on that incoming looping on-edge chandelle).

Any thoughts or experiences appreciated. Sporting Clays is a lot of fun, but it is a real shame to have to take a hit on targets that you just don't see... the eye tests. If you can't see it, you can't shoot it no matter how good you are.




Last edited by redi on Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:05 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 2045
Location: Indiana
Try a light purple lens in the trees. I’m dealing with the same vision issues as I have aged. I did find a cure for my dry eyes. My optometrist prescribed Ziidra drops and it has made a world of difference.


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:16 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:05 pm
Posts: 238
I have found that the color of lenses greatly affects my ability to pick up birds. Some of the amber colored lenses that let in more light but seem to brighten up contrast work well for me.


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:20 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:05 am
Posts: 290
Location: Central PA
I am 80 years old now and over the last 10 years it has been getting harder to pick up the targets in certain situations like you describe. Lens colors are pretty much an individual thing, I would have trouble shooting with clear ones. If you can find an eye doc who's a shooter it would probably help.


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:45 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2688
Location: Central Maine
I have had a very recent vision change that I am quite sure has led to a cross dominance issue. I am 58 and prior to things shutting down due to Covid had been on a long run of very solid shooting

During Covid and while working at home I put myself through some major eye strain leading to headaches and eye fatigue. My distance vision has always been very good but with age the in close vision has deteriorated. Had last eye exam in early May and was given the not bad at all for your age diagnosis I have gotten last 10 years

Over the last month from a shooting perspective the wheels have come off badly. On Sunday at my state tournament I shot the first half of the main event not great but not awful. The final 40 or so targets were a disaster with nearly every station breaking only 1-2 targets and most of the breaks being chips. The only thing that makes sense to me is that my off eye took over.

Have left a message at my eye doctors office to get in for a recheck and conversation but am also concerned that this potential issue isn’t one that every eye doctor is familiar with. Perhaps too if I need to bite the bullet and get glasses for full time correction then the fatigue will be reduced or eliminated and that will help address the cross dominance that I don’t think I have experienced before recent events. I have been struggling over the past 6+ weeks with random wipe out stations where everything looks right but I whiff on nearly all targets.

I am hopeful to figure this out and get out of the ditch quicky. Pretty discouraged

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Browning Citori Crossover Target

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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:16 pm
Posts: 3157
Location: Ozark,MO
The prior advice was good. I am 66 years old and take Lutein and Bilberry for my eyesight. Lutein is proven to avoid or stave off macular degeneration. Bilberry is much more annecdital and not well proven but can't hurt. One thing I found is switching to decaf coffee has slowed the degeneration of my eyesight. Learned this watching the baseball all-star game a few years ago when an all-star being interviewed said he saw the ball a lot better after cutting all caffein from his diet. I weaned myself off the caffein over about two months and didn't get any headaches. My eye doctor was impressed. She said it doesn't work for everyone but it has for me.

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Clinging tightly to my guns and my Bible, just not in that order
http://jwints.tripod.com/jwintssportingclays/


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:22 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
Posts: 687
That is really good to know. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:14 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:54 pm
Posts: 1902
Location: Evanston, Illinois
The best advice is what Is what Bill McGuire said in his video.
Look at the presentation target or the shooters before you. Pick out some object near your break point like a branch on a tree, or even a cloud in the sky, and look for the target there. Don't try to search for it after it's launched.


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:14 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:09 pm
Posts: 5373
Location: Omaha, NE
Couple years back I got a bad flu case, and was out for about 10 days, no caffine. Took my about another week to fully recover, and didn't have any caffine in that time frame.

I figured I was halfway to getting off of it all together, and stayed off for about 3 months.

Personally, didn't notice any difference in how I felt or my eyesight, so went back to having a cup or two of coffee a day. ymmv

with regard to trouble picking up targets, flat light- sunrise/sunset has always been a problem for me. I have a set of Pilla lime lenses that seem to help, but I try to avoid shooting at those times if I can.

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Eye on the rock, head on the stock.


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:17 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:09 pm
Posts: 5373
Location: Omaha, NE
dickgtax wrote:
The best advice is what Is what Bill McGuire said in his video.
Look at the presentation target or the shooters before you. Pick out some object near your break point like a branch on a tree, or even a cloud in the sky, and look for the target there. Don't try to search for it after it's launched.


This has really helped me with targets that go in and out of light and shadow- strobing targets.

Keep eyes still and let the target come to you. Lock onto it as soon as you can pick it up.

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Eye on the rock, head on the stock.


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:01 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5591
Get your eyes checked every year once you get past 45. If you buy shooting glasses over the internet verify the script strength.


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:10 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:46 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Charlottesville, VA
I'll be 88 in about three weeks. I had cataracts taken care of a couple of years ago and the color definition and focus improved quite a bit. I'm 20/20 now but find over time my eyes just get tired. 200 targets in one day is stretching it. On the floaters - This is second hand info but a very competitive bullseye pistol shooter (now deceased) had floaters and he said he wished that he had them fixed (?) when he was younger. He said they could drain the fluid in the eye and replace it. Someone who has more accurate knowledge of this might speak to that. As far as tint, I have fiddled, in my lifetime, with a lot of colors. Now my choices are like chokes, clear, dark and in-between. My everyday color is vermillion. My shooting has gone downhill the last few years but it is from not doing the work as compared to eyesight. Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:49 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:11 pm
Posts: 144
Location: DFW, TX
Thanks. If anyone has an eye doc who's a shooter in the DFW area, please let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:48 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 747
Location: Sharon, SC USA
Redi,
You want the BEST vision you can get in BOTH eyes. Trying to have weaker vision in an eye versus the other, will NOT effect dominance. you want all the vision you can get. This is straight from Dr Colo.....

Best,

Will

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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:21 pm
Posts: 5197
Location: UK
Will Fennell wrote:
Redi,
You want the BEST vision you can get in BOTH eyes. Trying to have weaker vision in an eye versus the other, will NOT effect dominance. you want all the vision you can get. This is straight from Dr Colo.....
Dead right. Dominance is determined neurologically not optically.

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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:28 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:11 pm
Posts: 144
Location: DFW, TX
Trickster wrote:
Will Fennell wrote:
Redi,
You want the BEST vision you can get in BOTH eyes. Trying to have weaker vision in an eye versus the other, will NOT effect dominance. you want all the vision you can get. This is straight from Dr Colo.....
Dead right. Dominance is determined neurologically not optically.


Interesting point guys, thanks. Basically my R can be corrected to 20/20 with a contact lens and my L is already 20/20 but can be corrected to even a bit better. I've always just left the L lens in the case, I try with both in and see what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:21 pm
Posts: 5197
Location: UK
One aspect of ageing vision is gradual loss of contrast. This matters because contrast is an essential part of how the eyes register different colours and even with perfect vision there are always variations in the sensitivity to different colours.

Another problem is weakening of eye muscles due not only to age but also too much TV/computer/smartphone etc. and of course wearing corrective lenses. Added together, these make it harder to pick up targets early, even when contrast is good. Unfortunately, there's little to nothing your optometrist can do to help.

The good news is that whilst you can't do much about contrast other than careful selection of lens colours, you can strengthen eye muscles with exercises. There's a ton of stuff on the internet to help but the basic principle is to use your eyes like they're meant to be used - just like "primitive" aboriginal people around the world from Innuit to Native Australians.

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“when Muslims are in the minority they are very concerned with minority rights, when they are in the majority there are no minority rights.”


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:57 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:16 pm
Posts: 3157
Location: Ozark,MO
Xsshooter, my eyesight didn't improve either but it stopped deteriorating. Although the all-star baseball player said he picked up the ball better, in my experience it just stopped the deteriorating. I was a CPA auditor and on a computer all day most days while drinking high test and my perscription was getting stronger and stronger each year. Alter going decaf my eyesight stabilized as confirmed by my eyedoctor. Anyway, it doesn't work for everyone but it did for me.

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Jwints1100
Clinging tightly to my guns and my Bible, just not in that order
http://jwints.tripod.com/jwintssportingclays/


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:45 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2688
Location: Central Maine
dpe2002 wrote:
I have had a very recent vision change that I am quite sure has led to a cross dominance issue. I am 58 and prior to things shutting down due to Covid had been on a long run of very solid shooting

During Covid and while working at home I put myself through some major eye strain leading to headaches and eye fatigue. My distance vision has always been very good but with age the in close vision has deteriorated. Had last eye exam in early May and was given the not bad at all for your age diagnosis I have gotten last 10 years

Over the last month from a shooting perspective the wheels have come off badly. On Sunday at my state tournament I shot the first half of the main event not great but not awful. The final 40 or so targets were a disaster with nearly every station breaking only 1-2 targets and most of the breaks being chips. The only thing that makes sense to me is that my off eye took over.

A follow up to my original post. I have had contact with my eye doctor and am scheduled for an appointment to inspect my eyes again thoroughly and check for any condition that could be a contributor and remeasure me for correction if that is the issue. Appointment is Sept 3.

I realize that what is going on with my shooting is just a symptom...not the problem. I believe that issues with my vision and my stubbornness to move to wearing glasses all the time probably has led to fatigue which I understand is something that can bring the eye dominance issue out for many individuals.




Have left a message at my eye doctors office to get in for a recheck and conversation but am also concerned that this potential issue isn’t one that every eye doctor is familiar with. Perhaps too if I need to bite the bullet and get glasses for full time correction then the fatigue will be reduced or eliminated and that will help address the cross dominance that I don’t think I have experienced before recent events. I have been struggling over the past 6+ weeks with random wipe out stations where everything looks right but I whiff on nearly all targets.

I am hopeful to figure this out and get out of the ditch quicky. Pretty discouraged

_________________
Beretta A400 Excel "Black" Cole Special
Browning Citori Crossover Target

NSCA 602398


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 Post subject: Re: deteriorating vision... alas age
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:09 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Posts: 2483
Location: Tampa Florida
Since I got replacement lenses due to cataracts, I don't have the floaters I used to have YMMV



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