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 Post subject: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:07 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2309
Ok, I should know better, but I don't. Registered shoot this past weekend and a target I went 0-4 on. Went back today and shot at the same target for 1 1/2 box of shells - still have not hit it once. 3 shooters in my squad 1 target broken.

The tgt. - Left to right crosser running low along a tree line, standard clay, full spring maxed out, tgt. never gets over 4' at the most, travel distance from trap to dirt, approx 45 yds. At the halfway point, about 3' high and going down hard and fast with a significant curl before it hits the dirt. Right hand shooter, tried IC and Lt . mod. for about a 37 yd. shot, 1 1/8 oz. promo 7 1/2's.

Tried swing thru, maintained lead, come to the gun, pull away, and vector - zero hits. The target is going so fast and low and constantly in transition, just cannot get far enough out in front and stay UNDER IT.

Remedy?




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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:21 pm 
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I think I would pick a spot on the trajectory about 1/2 way through it's flight. Carefully aim at that spot and pull the trigger. Then wait about 2 seconds and call "PULL". That should give you sufficient lead to hit that target. :wink: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:00 pm 
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Location: Omaha, NE
May be hard to diagnosis over internet.

When you say it doesn't get 4 feet off the ground, are you looking down on the target from a hill or tower?


Can you go back to that station and shoot it from a closer distance, and then start moving back?

If nothing else, I'd choke up to a mod or IM on that target.

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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2309
Ulysses wrote:
I think I would pick a spot on the trajectory about 1/2 way through it's flight. Carefully aim at that spot and pull the trigger. Then wait about 2 seconds and call "PULL". That should give you sufficient lead to hit that target. :wink: :wink:


Thanks, have not tried that one. :shock:

I stand corrected by a squadmate, no one broke it, but Cory Kruse ran the station, but I wasn't with him, so don't know what method he was using.


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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:23 pm 
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I'm with Jim. Get closer until you can hit it, then start backing up gradually. Last time I had one that was similar to what you describe, I was behind it and missing the line over. YMMV.

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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:29 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:29 pm 
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I would use a compound lead called pull away from a maintained lead

Check where you first see it, use that as hold point, then

Start out maintained lead, but under the bird, then pull away, shooting at 4 o'clock on the clay
Roger

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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 372
Location: New Mexico
Sounds like the first half of the path is the straightest, and somewhere on the second half the bird has a strong transition heading toward the ground.

That puts your break point probably real close the the mid point of the path. In other words, quick.

Reviewing how I've taken similar low fast crossers, and how AM's recent clays training video discusses this shot, it seems you might try "insert to lead" technique. Also called "mount and fire" or move/mount/shoot." You don't have the time to maintain or pull away because of bird speed. The path is real well known, especially up to mid point, because you have the reference lines of both the ground and the tree line. So, cheat mount, with a hold only slightly left of the break point. REALLY bear down on convincing yourself that you will take the shot just as the stock reaches your face. Where "insert to lead" name comes from - inserting the gun at the lead you need to break that fast bird. Not really any time to connect with the bird, you just are inserting right to the lead as you fire. Remember to bend a little forward to help keep the gun down on this low of a bird. Took me a couple of practice sessions to be able to "get mad enough" to really attack the bird, but that is what it seems I need to do.

Good luck, garrisonjoe


Last edited by garrisonjoe on Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:01 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
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Without watching you shoot the advice you get here is worth what you paid for it.


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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:19 pm 
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Corey shoots pull away but he does not ride the target.

He was probably holding 4 units in front and then pulled away.

Use a Mod or IM choke and stay under the target the whole time.

And edge only std target is only showing about 4.3 sq in's of surface. That's why most top shooters are shooting Mod or tighter.

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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:30 pm 
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reply deleted


Last edited by Bill M. on Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:33 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
Posts: 278
OP, could you be more specific about the curl? Is that the same down motion or an additional turn away from the stand? If the target is curling away, then the required lead is diminishing You may he out in front of it. If you just mean curling down, that is another story.

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Last edited by moishepipick on Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:40 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:44 pm
Posts: 166
Location: Lowcountry of SC
I just started shooting SC seriously this year. Coming from hunting and pistols. I shot with a M class shooter about a month ago in a club fun shoot. We shot the harder targets (faster and all pairs). Had 3 situations like this. We were far enough ahead stand wise that he could help me on one he broke it 3 of 4. We decided to practice and not turn in scores. The discussion went like this...you are 6-8 feet behind. Move your hold a little further out and don't use pass through. You are 6 feet behind, move to the bird path diagonally, insert and pull away. You are 3 foot behind because you flinched checking the barrel and lead. Double what you think and keep your eyes on the front edge of the bird, I broke it. Another fast low crossing target I got 2/4 and he said I flinched checking the barrel and missed behind on the two misses.

These other posters hit on great points. Mine would be to find a very, very good M class shooter to work with you on that target. Buy him or her some shells or a steak, it will be cheaper than figuring it out alone. I would have never put all that together by myself, or maybe got lucky after 100-150 rounds. Probably would not have understood how I got lucky other than "more lead". You are likely much, much better at this than me. So this is just my opinion.

JB


Last edited by Take-5-JB on Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:54 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2309
lt0026 wrote:
Without watching you shoot the advice you get here is worth what you paid for it.


True, and long story short, over and behind for sure.

You have about a net 20 yds. to break the clay because the 1st. tgt. is a rabbit clay thrown as a chondel and your finishing gun placement on the chondel leaves you way high on your finishing gun hold. When you bring the gun and eyes down, the tgt. is at least 15 yds. off the plate before you can get a visual of the entire clay. If you try and take the tgt. in the last 10 yds., it would be a luck shot as it's dropping fast and curling slightly into you, probably about 2 feet and then it's in the dirt.

It kinda reminds me of the speed of an international skeet tgt. but this one is in constant transition all the way. Will try again Friday if the tgt. hasn't been changed and go to off the shoulder to build gun speed and double the lead with a hold about 2 feet off the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 372
Location: New Mexico
Shoot the crosser by itself first to establish how much lead is needed and how fast you can break the bird.

If you don't have that much time left after shooting the chondel, well, then you have to break that first bird faster. Gulp.

Is this a report pair? Or something else?


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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2309
garrisonjoe wrote:
Shoot the crosser by itself first to establish how much lead is needed and how fast you can break the bird.

If you don't have that much time left after shooting the chondel, well, then you have to break that first bird faster. Gulp.

Is this a report pair? Or something else?


Report, but Joe, I shot 1 1/2 boxes at it today........by itself, and still have not broken it. I'm going to be seeing this target structure again, can't take a 50% score on this type of station. I know the pro who set these targets, maybe a lesson to relieve my anxiety and focus on nothing but fast and low crossers with a lot of english on them......sounds like a plan.


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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:03 pm
Posts: 238
4th. down wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
I think I would pick a spot on the trajectory about 1/2 way through it's flight. Carefully aim at that spot and pull the trigger. Then wait about 2 seconds and call "PULL". That should give you sufficient lead to hit that target. :wink: :wink:


Thanks, have not tried that one. :shock:

I stand corrected by a squadmate, no one broke it, but Cory Kruse ran the station, but I wasn't with him, so don't know what method he was using.



You simply cannot judge anything by what Cory shot. These guys are truly gifted and to compare anything to them is fruitless. Know him well and have shot with him and watched him shoot countless times. To us what seems impossible is just a walk in the park for him and people at his level.


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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 372
Location: New Mexico
OK, assuming your target distances are right, and it's close to a 90 degree crosser, and being thrown at 50 MPH, then "real" lead calculates to about 15 feet. If you have not pushed your lead out that far yet, try it. It will take overcoming what your brain tells you.


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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:33 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2309
snooky wrote:
4th. down wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
I think I would pick a spot on the trajectory about 1/2 way through it's flight. Carefully aim at that spot and pull the trigger. Then wait about 2 seconds and call "PULL". That should give you sufficient lead to hit that target. :wink: :wink:


Thanks, have not tried that one. :shock:

I stand corrected by a squadmate, no one broke it, but Cory Kruse ran the station, but I wasn't with him, so don't know what method he was using.



You simply cannot judge anything by what Cory shot. These guys are truly gifted and to compare anything to them is fruitless. Know him well and have shot with him and watched him shoot countless times. To us what seems impossible is just a walk in the park for him and people at his level.


You're right but I am not comparing myself to him. I have a friend who shot the course with him - he says he has eyes like a hawk.


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 Post subject: Re: How to fix this???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:50 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:03 pm
Posts: 238
4th,

Not saying you were and I certainly understand your frustration. Been there many time. What I'm trying to say is don't beat yourself up, just try and figure it out.

If you ever get an opportunity to watch these upper tier shooters shoot, please do. Just simply amazing what these guys and gals can do with a shotgun. Just a true pleasure to watch.

Enjoy your journey. A great sport with some truly fun people to be around.




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