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 Post subject: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:34 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1324
Pretty sure it was a behind the break podcast where the guest was talking about driving the gun to the target with the front hand. can't recall exactly who and don't want to guess as i may be getting the wording wrong here.

In any event is this a commonly accepted concept and if so exactly how is it put into practice? Are we pulling the gun out with the forearm hand as opposed to pushing out with the trigger hand? Or is it just referring to horizontal movement being controlled? i think not the latter as i've heard/read one should be rotating the top half of the body rather than just moving the arms.




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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:55 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:02 am
Posts: 45
Not 100% sure what you are referring to but I did listen to a behind the break podcast with Wendel Cherry where he stated that most people mkunt the gun with the rear hand initiating the move which he thinks is the wrong way. He advocates using the front hand to start the mount movement.


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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:01 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
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Exactly as you say, OP, the whole torso should rotate. The idea of the hand on the fore end driving the gun to the target I think comes from the idea of pointing the finger at the target. But in fact, if the gun is pushed by the hand at a different speed than the body rotates, the gun stock will be moving (rotating) on the face. Some folks may indeed shoot that way. I can’t say. There are so many different ways to do it. But I don’t think it is standard practice.

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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:07 pm 
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Location: The wilds of rural central California
birdhunter39 wrote:
Pretty sure it was a behind the break podcast where the guest was talking about driving the gun to the target with the front hand. can't recall exactly who and don't want to guess as i may be getting the wording wrong here.

In any event is this a commonly accepted concept and if so exactly how is it put into practice? Are we pulling the gun out with the forearm hand as opposed to pushing out with the trigger hand? Or is it just referring to horizontal movement being controlled? i think not the latter as i've heard/read one should be rotating the top half of the body rather than just moving the arms.

Since the gun is firmly mounted to the shoulder, how is the rear (trigger) hand going to be able to drive the gun much?

tp (steers with his knees and torso)

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12/30" Browning Citori CX White
12/28" 1978 Browning BSS
12/26" Franchi Affinity 3
12/26" ATI Cavalry (waiting 2 months now for a frikkin' firing pin)


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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:11 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
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Lacyb wrote:
Not 100% sure what you are referring to but I did listen to a behind the break podcast with Wendel Cherry where he stated that most people mkunt the gun with the rear hand initiating the move which he thinks is the wrong way. He advocates using the front hand to start the mount movement.



that is where i thought i heard it.


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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:13 am 
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Ankles , hips , torso. NOT the fore-arm hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:10 pm 
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I believe Todd Bender says something like thighs and eyes.

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Eye on the rock, head on the stock.


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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
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sera wrote:
Ankles , hips , torso. NOT the fore-arm hand.


for rotating right? but was he talking about the mount? does the fore-arm hand push the barrel to the insertion point rather than the grip hand? that's what i'm trying to understand here i guess. i think thus far i push with the grip hand or maybe 50/50?


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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
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Watch the Digweed video's. He explains using the lower body really well to get at targets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtTr8GByU7o


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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
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Location: Central NH
birdhunter39 wrote:
sera wrote:
Ankles , hips , torso. NOT the fore-arm hand.


for rotating right? but was he talking about the mount? does the fore-arm hand push the barrel to the insertion point rather than the grip hand? that's what i'm trying to understand here i guess. i think thus far i push with the grip hand or maybe 50/50?

Yes, he was talking about the mount. His comment had nothing to do with body rotation in connecting with the bird.


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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:17 pm 
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I have shot w/ a lot of top guys in low mount games like Fitasc. Every one brings the gun to their face 1st rather than to their shoulder 1st. Has to be the front hand to do that or you will badly see-saw the mount and that's a sloppy thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:09 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
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When raising the gun to the cheek pocket from a lower position nearly parallel to the ground and then afterward sliding it back to the shoulder pocket, I don’t see why both hands are not employed nearly equally.

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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:20 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:02 am
Posts: 45
Auldthymer wrote:
When raising the gun to the cheek pocket from a lower position nearly parallel to the ground and then afterward sliding it back to the shoulder pocket, I don’t see why both hands are not employed nearly equally.


I am not a low gun mount expert by any means but basic physics lets you know that if the trigger hand is dominanting the mount the barrels will dip down, and if the forend arm is dominating the mount the barrels will tip up. Ultimately I think most people attempt to use both arms and keep the gun online to the best of their ability but human nature kicks in and one or the other leads the show.

Wendel Cherry was advocating for the front hand to lead the show. If you watch Ben Hustwaites videos he specifically will use a mount with the front hand leading (bayonet mount) for specific targets and back arm leading the mount for other targets.


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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:17 pm 
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Where the front hand leads, the rear will follow -- and like with rear-wheel steering on some machines, the converse is not necessarily true ;)

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When the mind is right, the body will find a way...


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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:31 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:46 pm
Posts: 1169
If you shoot unmounted, like in FITASC, it is a disadvantage to mount the gun and chase the target.

The front hand should begin the the move to get the gun to the target while the gun is in the process of being mounted and coming to your face then to your shoulder.


"Nothing is more dangerous than ignorance and intolerance armed with power." Voltaire


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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:02 pm 
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I always envision my barrel as being connected to the target (or target line) by a hinge. Imagine if the target line were a metal bar at your eye height and that your barrels were welded to it with a door hinge and you pivoted the gun stock down out of your shoulder pocket. Your barrels are aimed at the target line at an acute angle but now imagine your barrels are 30 yards long. The angle is much more shallow and your barrels are well out of your vision but they are in fact pointed at the target line. If this is your ready position your forearm hand has a much better chance to lead the barrels to the target rather than it just being a pivot point for your rear hand. Plus the barrels have much less chance of dipping off line. Do this next time you shoot a 10 yard rabbit and your barrels will feel like they are aimed way down at the dirt but they will come right to the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 747
Location: Sharon, SC USA
Guys,
There are many different ways to bring a shotgun up to take a shot. I think some are better than others, and good shooting can be done with most any of them, if the shooter is good at what he does.

For me, they let me put the barrels on the line of the clay before I call pull, and therefore I'm gonna take advantage of that.....I rarely screw up the line of the clay. So to do this my barrel tip is generally than what many others think is 'correct'. if you stand off to the side, and watch my mount, you will see that the end of the barrels basically stay put during the mount, like there is a door hinge on the end of the barrel, ie, the gun pivots on the end of the barrel. It DOES NOT pivot on the lead hand. So yeah both hands are moving the gun....and obviously, the firing hand moves the most.

Its worked pretty well for me in FITASC over the years....and FITASC is the discipline that is the second most demanding with regards to the gun mount. International Skeet is the discipline that is the MOST demanding of a clean, efficient gun mount. You might want to check out Vinny Hancock's gun mount.

YMMV,

Best,

Will

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 Post subject: Re: Driving the gun with the front (forearm) hand...how?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
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Location: Attica, Mi
I've always shot gun down. The last thing I think about is pushing the front hand toward the target [ or should I say a spot in front of the target - intercept ?]. It was how I stopped catching the butt on my clothing.



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