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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:39 pm 
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Hey, there you geezers are. Welcome aboard.

Keep it coming :)



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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:44 pm 
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Half those geezers don't own a computer and many still have a flip phone. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:51 pm 
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ysr_racer wrote:
Hey, there you geezers are. Welcome aboard.

Keep it coming :)

So what's the cost and payback period for use once per month?

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:49 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
ysr_racer wrote:
Hey, there you geezers are. Welcome aboard.

Keep it coming :)

So what's the cost and payback period for use once per month?


No clue, but as a customer it's a nice addition for me. What's the roi on flush toilets, or air conditioning?

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:50 pm 
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ysr_racer wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
ysr_racer wrote:
Hey, there you geezers are. Welcome aboard.

Keep it coming :)

So what's the cost and payback period for use once per month?


No clue, but as a customer it's a nice addition for me. What's the roi on flush toilets, or air conditioning?

Comparing a non-essential nicety to essential is apples to oranges; I suspect you've been living in CA too long as that is the BS type arguments your politicians like to use - deflect, be derisive and don't answer
I thought you were better than that, Brad. :roll:
I asked a simple question; you seemed to have all this research previously. Why would a small club spend the money for the gear, updates, WIFI on the course, etc. for a monthly shoot that brings in 45-65 folks?
Now, MAYBE what might be a great way to introduce it would be for Winscore, ScoringPro/Score Chaser to use them at the big blasts where they send personnel to help with scoring and reporting so it can be demonstrated at no cost to the club

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
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Location: UK, England, Britain
there are alot of well organised shooting grounds.
it`ll happen, maybe in the larger shooting grounds.

on competition day it gets awfully crowded.


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:44 am 
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Uhhhhhh, if you old geezers would open your eyes......electronics aren't coming they are already here, extremely reliable, waterproof and simple to use. And no one will have to have a scorecard and than a masterscore sheet....and if you have ever had to total up scorecards and read the hieroglyphics, it is no wonder mistakes are made. Ever see scorecards when it is raining and windy? I'll take the electronic version in a heartbeat.


It's 2020 wake up and join the rest of the world.


Technically I am an old geezer too at 64 years. Electronic scoring can't happen soon enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:06 am 
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And the internet never goes down, tablets never go down, files and programs never become corrupted? And nobody makes mistakes entering data on a computer. Please justify the cost to the club. Tell me you want to pay for the equipment, installation and trappers as part of the entry fee. This isn't free stuff. And the margins in targets won't pay for it. Show me how it would save time and money for the clubs.


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:23 am 
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Go ahead call me a geezer, its true. Was heavily involved in implementing electronic tracking systems in one of the most conservative businesses.

Electronic scoring is technically possible there are obstacles to overcome. Wide spread multiple data entry points, large tournaments may have dozens. High volume in tournaments. Comparatively low volume most of the time.

Mobile scoring business would work, portable data entry & WiFi equipment run by outside staff. Business model already used in sporting clays. Traps brought in for tournaments, set and maintained by outside contractors . Tournament Golf carts operate same way mobile contractors.

All it needs is capital, will it pay ?

Bass


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:54 am 
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lt0026 wrote:
And the internet never goes down, tablets never go down, files and programs never become corrupted? And nobody makes mistakes entering data on a computer. Please justify the cost to the club. Tell me you want to pay for the equipment, installation and trappers as part of the entry fee. This isn't free stuff. And the margins in targets won't pay for it. Show me how it would save time and money for the clubs.


And pistol matches have been using it for years, and pistol matches have been using it for years, and pistol matches have been using it for years, and pistol matches have been using it for years...

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:55 am 
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Again, justify the cost of a flush toilet to a club, a bucket out back would be much cheaper.

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:26 am 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
Uhhhhhh, if you old geezers would open your eyes......electronics aren't coming they are already here, extremely reliable, waterproof and simple to use. And no one will have to have a scorecard and than a masterscore sheet....and if you have ever had to total up scorecards and read the hieroglyphics, it is no wonder mistakes are made. Ever see scorecards when it is raining and windy? I'll take the electronic version in a heartbeat.


It's 2020 wake up and join the rest of the world.


Technically I am an old geezer too at 64 years. Electronic scoring can't happen soon enough.


So HOW MUCH? What is the payback time frame? I keep asking and never get an answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:45 am 
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it0026,

Other than weather related problems, which you wouldn't be shooting in anyway, when was the last time the internet went down in your area?

In the last 30 years I have never had a computer, tablet or cell phone fail. Up until last July, I used each for my job from 2007 to 2019. I am posting this from a Dell Chromebook. Tablets and cell phones are used by foreman in construction on the job sites. A far tougher environment physically on electronic equipment than Sporting Clays would be.

These types of applications are not subject to corrupted files or viruses. While not impossible it would be highly unlikely.

Seems like your experience with electronics is limited.

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:57 am 
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My knowledge is not limited. I was the lead person in a LEA that went to tablets in police cars. Computer Aided Dispatch and reporting. We had crashes, battery problems, dead zones, program issues and damage to tablets for various reasons. We did three backups a day for a reason. Any smart business does the same. We used Verizon cell service. If you never got a blue screen or computer freeze I want to meet you. You are very special. Until you get past the cost factor none of what you mention matters. So tell me how does a club finance this big capital project with the small margins on targets? How much will fees increase? How does the club benefit? And find me a shoot where everyone is comfortable using and carrying a tablet, especially SYO? By the way it's lt.


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:01 am 
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oneounceload,

Not sure on the payback but I can't see a place like M & M having a problem paying for it.

I would imagine that the largest part of the cost is the installation of the access points for the wifi.

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:06 am 
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M&M isn't going to pay for it. You will. ROI.


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:11 am 
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it0026,

You wouldn't have dead zones, you wouldn't use cell towers for this application. You would have to have someone that was diligent on keeping equipment charged and maintained.

You are right I did have a blue screen back in the 1990's. I was at work and the hard drive died on my desktop. Forgot all about that.

Not sure that this is big capital.

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:19 am 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
oneounceload,

Not sure on the payback but I can't see a place like M & M having a problem paying for it.

I would imagine that the largest part of the cost is the installation of the access points for the wifi.


Don't get me wrong, I am not against it; I just do not see too many clubs spending the capital for the equipment, software, WIFI, etc. for something that might get used 1x per month. I could see it as a nice feature at the big blasts and at such events as State, Regional, Open and Nationals.

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:21 am 
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What's the ROI for just keeping score? Who finances this improvement in the long run? Answer is you. Any savvy well run business backs up it's systems constantly, why is that? I am not against it, but it doesn't make sense financially. Are shooters willing to pay extra $$$ for the convenience? They don't want to pay for trappers and scorekeepers now. A for profit club has a cost basis for throwing a target. How much extra will this cost? Roughly .20 cents to throw a registered target now taking into consideration all club costs. Thats probably on the low side. And for the shooter add the National,state and scoring fees which the club collects. For profit clubs aren't in business to break even or lose money.


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:45 am 
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When I ran NSCA shoots I paid the local ROTC $500 to trap and score the 14-16 stations and provided lunch. They also got service hours

All for one shoot a month

Installing WiFi and buying tablets would have cost how much? I'd rather put the effort in to the community



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