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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:45 pm 
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admittedly I skipped the last page and half of responses. Hope to read the rest later. Several were asking about the costs.
I have been looking into this in an indirect manner. I enjoy tech so like to read on it and study what i can.
COSTS CAN VARY A LOT so impossible to say the cost until we see their need.
Tablets, the cost of the tablet may vary a lot depending on a few things. 1. Does it need to be rugged. Want to pay extra for the ability to fall and be okay or want to play the odds? 2. How demanding is the ap? Can the ap run with minimal specs or would it be pushing the limits. I use tablets for our waivers. I went the $60-80 route. They take a few falls before breaking. I have 10. Replaced 1 in last 18 months. Rough handling but inside. 14 tablets would be about $850+

Wifi, depends on the data requirements. Needing to send and recieve is different than being able to just send or being able to just recieve. Bandwith matters when talking about back hauls. I have been intersted in wifi for being able to add a call button, remote monitor traps, and a few other amenities. Spoke to a few sources and qoutes are in the $4000-7500 range for us to cover 80 of our 120 acres. That is a mesh that allows me to move stands around. I was qouted $2900 to run fiber to each stand and have them be access points.

ROI, need someone better than me. For example I know improving my roads on the course helps, but what is its ROI, couldnt tell you.
What I can say is (outside corona and this year) we average about 100-120 events a year and we total scores for the business or charity for about 85 of them. If we had tablets and it saved 30 minutes of labor while providing a better response time to my customers 80 times a year. That is about 40 hours a year so $400 cost savings with greater accuracy and speed. Not enough to jump off on it right now, but something I would watch especially if I could add other features to the wifi such as battery voltage monitoring, call button, food order etc and could spread the cost out more.



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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:31 pm 
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There's no need for Wi-Fi, most pistol ranges don't have it. They drive around every few hours with a hot spot, and gather up the scores...

...or they bring the tablets in at lunch time and grab the scores then.

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:45 pm 
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That's nice, Brad. How many pistol bays are in use and over what area? Does everyone at these matches all start in the Am at the same time and end at the same time for lunch and then resume at a set time after lunch? Not being a pistolero myself, I do not know how your matches operate so please educate me in that regard.
Both of the clubs I now frequent set up 2 14 station courses that can be shot at any time. Some elect to shoot A in the morning and B in the afternoon and others do the opposite so 28 tablets spread over ~100 acres from the clubhouse (which barely has service as it is). I am just not seeing that to be something for them. However, as I said previously, I think it could work very well at the larger shoots like States, Regionals and the Open and Nationals, at least to begin with.

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:06 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
That's nice, Brad. How many pistol bays are in use and over what area? Does everyone at these matches all start in the Am at the same time and end at the same time for lunch and then resume at a set time after lunch? Not being a pistolero myself, I do not know how your matches operate so please educate me in that regard.
Both of the clubs I now frequent set up 2 14 station courses that can be shot at any time. Some elect to shoot A in the morning and B in the afternoon and others do the opposite so 28 tablets spread over ~100 acres from the clubhouse (which barely has service as it is). I am just not seeing that to be something for them. However, as I said previously, I think it could work very well at the larger shoots like States, Regionals and the Open and Nationals, at least to begin with.


Now you're just ****ing with me right? Good one, you got me.

As I've said a hundred times, there's no mandate out there that every club in America uses tablets for scoring, I'm just asking why we haven't seen it.

Have you let the people in England know it can't possibly work? You'll be the new Benedict Arnold :)

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:37 pm 
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Guess you need your vision checked. I have NEVER said it couldn't work

Let me requote it for you:

Quote:
However, as I said previously, I think it could work very well at the larger shoots like States, Regionals and the Open and Nationals, at least to begin with.


But nice try Brad (and again you do not answer my questions).........

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:41 pm 
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What does posting scores in real time accomplish?


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:30 pm 
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lt0026 wrote:
What does posting scores in real time accomplish?

Umm, nothing.

Electronic scoring eliminates registration, squadding, paying, writing down the scores, tabulating the scores, entering the scores in Scoring Pro or WinScore.

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:55 pm 
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ysr_racer wrote:
lt0026 wrote:
What does posting scores in real time accomplish?

Umm, nothing.

Electronic scoring eliminates registration, squadding, paying, writing down the scores, tabulating the scores, entering the scores in Scoring Pro or WinScore.


You don't have a clue concerning the administrative abilities of some of the systems currently in place at less cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:58 pm 
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lt0026 wrote:
ysr_racer wrote:
lt0026 wrote:
What does posting scores in real time accomplish?

Umm, nothing.

Electronic scoring eliminates registration, squadding, paying, writing down the scores, tabulating the scores, entering the scores in Scoring Pro or WinScore.


You don't have a clue concerning the administrative abilities of some of the systems currently in place at less cost.


Less cost than free? Because that's what Practiscore costs. Not to mention someone has work the registration, take the payments, manually tabulate the scores, and manually enter them in to Winscore.

Do those people work for free?

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:51 am 
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SC's isn't shot in a sand pit at a piece of paper. Costs are never going to go down in SC's. Don't conflate pistol competition with SC's. Apples and oranges. Golf has been using tablets and scorekeepers for decades. They still keep a score card and need to sign it for an official score. And they still have a scoreboard carried around with each group showing scores. Do you honestly think any POSSIBLE savings are going to be passed on to shooters? If anything costs will go up. You have found an expensive fix for a problem that doesn't exist. Whats the problem now?


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:04 am 
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lt0026 wrote:
SC's isn't shot in a sand pit at a piece of paper. Costs are never going to go down in SC's. Don't conflate pistol competition with SC's. Apples and oranges. Golf has been using tablets and scorekeepers for decades. They still keep a score card and need to sign it for an official score. And they still have a scoreboard carried around with each group showing scores. Do you honestly think any POSSIBLE savings are going to be passed on to shooters? If anything costs will go up. You have found an expensive fix for a problem that doesn't exist. Whats the problem now?


The problem is you're conflating me with the organization in the UK. If I had to guess I'd guess you're an old geezer.

We're you this upset when women got the right to vote? Or they ended prohibition?

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:52 am 
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Register in advance Yes
Squad in advance Yes
Change squad Yes
Pay in full or deposit in advance Yes
So what are you eliminating with tablets as you state above? The scoring programs already do this stuff above. The only thing the investment does is provide for real time scoring at a big expense. What is the need for real time scoring compared to turn around times now?


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:52 pm 
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lt0026 wrote:
Register in advance Yes
Squad in advance Yes
Change squad Yes
Pay in full or deposit in advance Yes
So what are you eliminating with tablets as you state above? The scoring programs already do this stuff above. The only thing the investment does is provide for real time scoring at a big expense. What is the need for real time scoring compared to turn around times now?


Read my response slowly, it eliminates the need for Lois or Casey. It eliminates the need to add the scores up. It eliminates the need to input each and every score into a scoring program.

It you don't get it at this point, ask your nurse for more Aricept, because nothing I say is going to make you change your mind.

But let me ask you this, how many pistol matches have you shot where they used tablets?

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:45 pm 
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You don't need Lois and Casey at every shoot. Many clubs have personnel capable of handling everything but the biggest shoots. And they are already being paid to be at the shoot. I could care less what you do at pistol matches. Maybe you need to spend more time fixing that 59% average in NSCA events rather than shooting pistols and playing with tablets.


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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:49 pm 
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lt0026 wrote:
You don't need Lois and Casey at every shoot. Many clubs have personnel capable of handling everything but the biggest shoots. And they are already being paid to be at the shoot. I could care less what you do at pistol matches. Maybe you need to spend more time fixing that 59% average in NSCA events rather than shooting pistols and playing with tablets.


Exactly, no one from Winscore is at one of my club's local monthly shoots even though they use them for registration. That said Lois comes to Florida for several weeks in January/February time frame and does work all of the big blast shoots that use Winscore.

Brad, if that software is free, how do the developers make any money?

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 Post subject: Re: Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:16 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
.

Brad, if that software is free, how do the developers make any money?


Ask the CPSA in the UK, they're implementing it, not me.



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