First , no one would go to any shoot w/out the chance to win a punch. NO ONE.

2d , while there is cheating , it is mostly rare and is also in shoots w/ trappers.

And SYO is NOT the shooters' fault. It's all I get where I live.

3d , the idea that the OP "saw" some 2 person squads and thought to blame the shooters is JUST WRONG.

Excellent point, one of the most recent cases took place at a huge event with trappers and master score sheets.

Steve

1 - Completely FALSE; we had a full squad that did just that for a long time; we went for the challenge and shooting with other friends.

2 - Completely TRUE

3 - I have seen two man squads, and have even been on a few when no third shooter was available. Folks are honest will still be honest, especially when the squad is made up of two folks have have never met before.

I don't get too bent out of shape with a two man squad, but I do question when I see a husband and wife go out, and the wife is just there to score and pull

Or when it is mom and dad and kid and mom seems to see a LOT of "X"s for the son

I never figured out the mom and dad squad. I would have killed if one of my kids wanted to go shoot with me. I can't imagine just pulling and scoring for my kid if I had a chance to participate.

I've been turned away from a shoot because I didn't have anyone to shoot with, and the club couldn't get me squadded with anyone else. Nor would they send me out as a single with a trapper.

Clubs generally do a good job of making sure that three people or more are squadded, the issue in this instance was that the club would not give me a score card and send me down to station 1 to stand around and wait for a group.

Yet oddly enough groups of two had gone out at that club.

3d , the idea that the OP "saw" some 2 person squads and thought to blame the shooters is JUST WRONG.

RE-READ OP's POST.... NEVER BLAMED A SOUL......JUST HAD A QUESTION.....

"FSCA and NSCA Rules Florida Sporting Clays Association
FSCA and NSCA Rules"

"Florida Sporting Clays Association (FSCA) is the authorized state organization of the National Sporting Clays Association and as such all NSCA Rules apply at all times in Florida. Current NSCA rules can be found here."

"In addition, FSCA also requires that whenever a club does not provide a scorer and master sheet, that (a) all shooters must shoot in squads of no less than three (3) shooters and (b) that each shooter must sign his/her own scorecard as well as another member of the same squad. These signatures affirm that the score is true and correct and that all NSCA and FSCA rules were followed. Any scores submitted but not in compliance with the foregoing must be disqualified."

I think this is pretty clearly stated and needs no "second-guessing" to understand it!
It's been very easy to follow these rules as it should be.

pk

Some parents here think their kids are the next World Champion. One club had two sets of parents fully pay for a regulation International Bunker trap set up; total cost over $135,000.......when you have parents like that, it is not unreasonable to see mom and dad going with Junior as he manages to get to M class at these shoots.

Every sport has those parents. I think college help is a big driver.

The NSCA had to make a rule for spectator conduct. Some of these lawn mower parents, spouses, boy friends and girlfriends get a little carried away trying to influence scorekeepers.

Don’t think the NSCA wrote this rule with a pandemic in mind. I’d rather shoot with one or two other people in my squad out of concerns for social distancing than a squad of five people. Yes, we all have different safety perspectives and beliefs about the pandemic, but we really need to respect and be tolerant of each other’s safety concerns.

My wife and myself have shot in a 2 man squad often due to our location. I would prefer to shoot by myself with trappers. I think there are only 2 clubs near me that hold monthly shoots with trappers. One of those being a 3.5 hour drive one way. Now post COVID only 1 range has monthly shoots with trappers. If I want to move up in the current NSCA system and get enough punches to move up I have to shoot SYO. As stated previous, if people are going to cheat, they will. I have seen people do it in 2 man groups and in groups of 4. In MY opinion changing squad size does nothing to discourage cheating, it only makes the people who think they are getting cheated feel better when they get beat.

If you suspect people are cheating don’t shoot that club, or shoot events with refs fitasc five stand or larger shoots with dedicated trappers pullers.

Iam saddened by the parents hovering over and saying stuff like “you sure ref, looked like a chip too me” say and heard that at a state shoot this year. Then saw it at the regional.

I thought when I stopped playing hockey I wouldn’t have to deal with the “my kid” parents but it’s not the case in sporting. I’ve also heard that in the sctp skeet and trap events those parents are brutual.

Interesting turn today at the warm up for the State Shoot in Colorado. Tough technical targets, some of the best shooters in the state ended up in a three way tie for top gun at 83. That is until late in the afternoon when a couple of youngerns from C class and D class posted scores of 91 and 84. Both shooters have 1700 lifetime targets each. The 91 shooter has shot 100 targets this year, the 84 shooter has 0 Registered targets this year. Can't wait to hear the stories at next weeks State Shoot.

Not sure where you shot today, but the colorado clays warm up today, was a not.easy targets. I was shooting with mostly D class and had one station where 5 shooters combined for 2 broken targets.



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I should also mention, we had two younger shooters join us with parents. They did none of those antics that other parents do. Stayed out of the way, did not coach their kids while shooting, and didn't question any targets. I'd shoot with those high school kids any day.



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That was the shoot, saw a lot of Master Class shooters struggle with those targets today. When the top dogs are breaking target in the low 80s it suprises me to see C and D class shooters beating them by7 or 8 birds.
I did shoot behind a couple young shooters 2 weeks ago at Pikes Peak. Very good shooters and I expect them to rise through the ranks quickly. But they didn't outshoot the Master class guys.
FWIW I shot a 62 and while I wasn't pleased with my performance( there were a lot of those I'd like to have back) it was good enough for 3rd place in B class.

Trappers or SYO?