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 Post subject: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:38 pm 
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I have been seeing more of these presentations, and many (including myself) are challenged from time to time.

Recently a report pair of quartering outgoing followed by quartering incoming humbled many - especially the second target.

What tactics are you all using?




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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:55 pm 
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Bill Appel took some time with me a few years ago on just this kind of a target. His approach was to slowly---slowwwwly come from the back of the bird to the front while keeping it just above the barrel. Its most important to go just a touch faster then the target and fire when it feels right. If its coming from a long way off let it come to you and soft focus until the gun engages the back of the bird. Hard focus and move to the front. Bang it works almost every time that I do it with good focus. Where have you heard that before.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:10 pm 
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A fast trap/teal eats me up, but low and slow incomers with some "english" on them, I can hit with a high percentage.........out of the shoulder mount with your hold point about 10-12 yds. back from your break point. Touch the target with your muzzle at the hold point, and then slowly pull away while staying under. It's rapidly losing speed so being under is more important than the lead......just be in front and be using the appropriate choke for the distance at the break point. Saw numerous ones like this today while shooting the South Central Regional targets.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:22 pm 
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Shoot under, bow from the waist if it is really dropping as it approaches

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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:49 am 
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Thanks for the responses.

I get the need to shoot under, but have evidently been fooled by the minimal amount of lead needed as described. My eyes have been telling the brain that too much is needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:20 am 
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Location: Central Texas
Great question for Anthony. He has a thread on this site.

DL


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:19 am 
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When I see these, they are often also coming off a hill or tower and angled slightly to one side, so they appear pretty thin and edgy the entire way. Their main "trick" that confounds shooters is they pretty quickly transition from the edgy medium speed quartering incomer to an edgy crosser with its afterburners on as it powers into the ground -- all while the shooter waits for a better look than the edgy incomer. My own .02 is to have enough choke and take them further out; I find they're a lot easier to synch up with and get on line while they're further out and still actually quartering and not yet crossing. YMMV

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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:55 am 
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JacksBack wrote:
When I see these, they are often also coming off a hill or tower and angled slightly to one side, so they appear pretty thin and edgy the entire way. Their main "trick" that confounds shooters is they pretty quickly transition from the edgy medium speed quartering incomer to an edgy crosser with its afterburners on as it powers into the ground -- all while the shooter waits for a better look than the edgy incomer. My own .02 is to have enough choke and take them further out; I find they're a lot easier to synch up with and get on line while they're further out and still actually quartering and not yet crossing. YMMV

That is how I prefer to shoot them. Rather than having my calculator try and compute lead/drop. Prefer just lead if it isn't too far out.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:36 am 
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Jack and Swamy,
When these targets are moving fast and taken when quartering do you find that they still require minimal lead?


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:10 pm 
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Malcolm7 wrote:
Jack and Swamy,
When these targets are moving fast and taken when quartering do you find that they still require minimal lead?


Depends on how much they're quartering -- if they're almost straight at you, then very little lead, maybe just the right or left edge of the target; if they're more quartering, then for sure some lead; but for sure they require less lead out there than they do as closer crossers. For me personally, I find the hardest part reading the proper line at distance, so I tend to take them after their "hump" so I know they are actually dropping. Here I then know to be a little under them as well as in front all while remaining on-line of course, if that makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:43 pm 
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I like to shoot low incomes early letting my pattern spread a bit. usually at some point along the path the target basically isn't moving left, right or up and down and you just shoot right at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:32 pm 
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I think the biggest problem with these targets is gun speed. To be consistent, you have to get your gun going the same speed as the target.

In my opinion, there are two types of targets. Targets you have time to run with, and targets that you don’t have time to run with.

If I have time to run with an incoming quartering target, I use a 3 step pull away method. All three steps are very Conscious decisions and I am very aware of where my barrel is the entire time.
1. Mount on the target and put the barrel/bead right on it. (for me this begins halfway between the trap and the breakpoint/break zone)
2. Move with the target having the barrel/bead right on top of the target the entire time going exactly the same speed with your eyes slightly out of focus so you can see the barrel and
target moving together. (this doesn’t work if you’re hard focusing on either one while running together).
3. As you approach a predetermined break point/zone, Zoom your eyes in on the target and look for lots of definition (rings, shadows). When you do this, the barrel fades away. When you see the rings shoot.

When I’m in the box, all I tell myself for my plan is “ Touch it, move with it, shoot.“

For the record, I typically never see my barrel or bead on most other shots. This is one of the few where I use this method. I also use this method on far slow targets.

Just my two cents, works for me. I think the most important thing is to know what your plan is before you call pull. If you feel lost, you probably don’t know where your barrel is or you don’t have a specific plan of eye setup, hold point, and break point.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:41 pm 
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Jack,
How does the lead on an incoming quartering target compare to outgoing quartering target if both are at similar speeds and angles? It seems like the incoming should need more, but what I am reading is that this is not the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
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Dmaroon wrote:
I think the biggest problem with these targets is gun speed. To be consistent, you have to get your gun going the same speed as the target.

In my opinion, there are two types of targets. Targets you have time to run with, and targets that you don’t have time to run with.

If I have time to run with an incoming quartering target, I use a 3 step pull away method. All three steps are very Conscious decisions and I am very aware of where my barrel is the entire time.
1. Mount on the target and put the barrel/bead right on it. (for me this begins halfway between the trap and the breakpoint/break zone)
2. Move with the target having the barrel/bead right on top of the target the entire time going exactly the same speed with your eyes slightly out of focus so you can see the barrel and
target moving together. (this doesn’t work if you’re hard focusing on either one while running together).


3. As you approach a predetermined break point/zone, Zoom your eyes in on the target and look for lots of definition (rings, shadows). When you do this, the barrel fades away. When you see the rings shoot.

When I’m in the box, all I tell myself for my plan is “ Touch it, move with it, shoot.“

For the record, I typically never see my barrel or bead on most other shots. This is one of the few where I use this method. I also use this method on far slow targets.

Just my two cents, works for me. I think the most important thing is to know what your plan is before you call pull. If you feel lost, you probably don’t know where your barrel is or you don’t have a specific plan of eye setup, hold point, and break point.


^^^^^^^^

Basically, exactly how I do it, and it works well, at least for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:41 pm 
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Malcolm7 wrote:
Jack,
How does the lead on an incoming quartering target compare to outgoing quartering target if both are at similar speeds and angles? It seems like the incoming should need more, but what I am reading is that this is not the case.



Basically it's the same lead for both.

Don't get caught up in the fact that the going away lead is diminishing a bit while the incomer's is increasing -- you're pattern is big enough to cover the slight difference. Plus with more time shooting both types, your internal target database will expand and your "targeting computer" will auto-adjust leads for the subtle difference ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 pm 
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Thanks all for the helpful replies.

And now on to the integration phase.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:09 pm 
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Malcolm7 wrote:
Thanks all for the helpful replies.

And now on to the integration phase.


The best part!


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for incoming quartering targets
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:15 pm 
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Malcolm7 wrote:
Thanks all for the helpful replies.

And now on to the integration phase.


If you have a place to work specifically on this presentation it would be very beneficial to learn how to attack and have success early in flight, mid range and later in flight. Depending on what the pair is you may very well not have the option to shoot it in your preferred place. Target setters have been known to be ornery and mean about stuff like that.



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