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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:52 pm 
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JacksBack wrote:
To the OP's original question,

The loads you reference preferring are totally fine. As target distances get further out there, it is nice to have a little more ooomph, and ooomph comes from speed. Does a shooter need more than 1300 FPS? I personally don't think so for most sporting or FITASC layouts I've seen or shot.

That said, velocities above 1300 tend to render more open patterns than a sister load under 1300; stated another way, a 1200 FPS load is generally a little tighter than a 1290 or 1300 FPS load, the 1350 FPS load will be more open still.

My "normal" load is 1 oz of #7-½'s at 1250, 1230 or 1275 depending on manufacturer. I have also shot several 1oz 1210 FPS loads with good success. I personally stick to 1250 as my goto as I am then comfortable shooting any 1200 to 1300 FPS load I can obtain at a travel shoot and not have to worry about lead changes.

But then I do keep a few 1oz 1350 #8's handy and use them a legal FITASC "spreader" load where changing chokes is not viable. They open up about a half-choke step over my normals on the pattern plate and do absolutely hammer targets, but I personally do not choose to shoot them regularly due to recoil.

That is very interesting. In his book, Sporting Shotgun Performance, Dr. A. C. Jones effectively debunks that belief, showing with experimental data that the difference in pattern spread between faster and slower cartridges varies in both directions with different chokes but never to a statistically significant degree. This was true over as large a velocity difference as 1116 to 1388 fps.

But I will just add that the one case where higher velocity did produce greater spread was the 0.039” constriction, which I think could find use in Trap although it would be a bit extreme. The difference of 3% pellet efficiency while still insignificant, nevertheless does comport favorably with your thesis.



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Last edited by Auldthymer on Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2309
Auldthymer wrote:
JacksBack wrote:
To the OP's original question,

The loads you reference preferring are totally fine. As target distances get further out there, it is nice to have a little more ooomph, and ooomph comes from speed. Does a shooter need more than 1300 FPS? I personally don't think so for most sporting or FITASC layouts I've seen or shot.

That said, velocities above 1300 tend to render more open patterns than a sister load under 1300; stated another way, a 1200 FPS load is generally a little tighter than a 1290 or 1300 FPS load, the 1350 FPS load will be more open still.

My "normal" load is 1 oz of #7-½'s at 1250, 1230 or 1275 depending on manufacturer. I have also shot several 1oz 1210 FPS loads with good success. I personally stick to 1250 as my goto as I am then comfortable shooting any 1200 to 1300 FPS load I can obtain at a travel shoot and not have to worry about lead changes.

But then I do keep a few 1oz 1350 #8's handy and use them a legal FITASC "spreader" load where changing chokes is not viable. They open up about a half-choke step over my normals on the pattern plate and do absolutely hammer targets, but I personally do not choose to shoot them regularly due to recoil.

That is very interesting. In his book, Sporting Shotgun Performance, Dr. A. C. Jones effectively debunks that belief, showing with experimental data that the difference in pattern spread between faster and slower cartridges varies in both directions with different chokes but never to a statistically significant degree.


Yes, I gathered the same and Neil Winston discovered the same outcome with his extensive testing and publishing the results. Worry about something else that will really make a difference in your shooting success.

https://www.trapshooters.com/threads/sp ... rn.541545/


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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1326
On the subject of 1oz 1180 AA shells I find they have sharper recoil than Fiocchi SD 1oz 1200.

Fiocchi doesn’t have a 1180 but they do have the 1oz 1170 SD. A very nice shell with slightly softer recoil vs the 1200.


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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
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birdhunter39 wrote:
On the subject of 1oz 1180 AA shells I find they have sharper recoil than Fiocchi SD 1oz 1200.

Fiocchi doesn’t have a 1180 but they do have the 1oz 1170 SD. A very nice shell with slightly softer recoil vs the 1200.

That is so peculiar. It is nothing I have ever noticed, but yet you are the second one to mention such a thing in this thread. And both mentions involved Winchester shells of one type or another. You hear it all the time, but how can it be? Sure there may be less significant influences, the type of wad and such, but recoil is so principally a function of shot weight and velocity. How should we try to explain a brand difference among shells with the same major specifications? I suppose burn rate of the powder could make a difference, but it is still a
mystery to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:07 pm 
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I've compared them on a pattern plate at 30 and 40 yards, and in my guns with my chokes, the 1350 SuperSport 8's pattern a good half-choke more open than my goto 1250 or 1275 1oz loads. You all can believe whatever you want to.

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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:23 pm 
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JacksBack wrote:
I've compared them on a pattern plate at 30 and 40 yards, and in my guns with my chokes, the 1350 SuperSport 8's pattern a good half-choke more open than my goto 1250 or 1275 1oz loads. You all can believe whatever you want to.

Just trying to get to the truth. According to Jones the pattern differences you observe are more likely due to the pellet size difference than the velocity difference. It would be interesting if you repeated your tests with only one variable at a time, either the variation in speed or pellet size, but not both. Let us know what you find.

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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:27 pm 
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Ain’t no ‘truths’ in shotgunning except for putting the center of the swarm on target more often.


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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
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Auldthymer wrote:
birdhunter39 wrote:
On the subject of 1oz 1180 AA shells I find they have sharper recoil than Fiocchi SD 1oz 1200.

Fiocchi doesn’t have a 1180 but they do have the 1oz 1170 SD. A very nice shell with slightly softer recoil vs the 1200.

That is so peculiar. It is nothing I have ever noticed, but yet you are the second one to mention such a thing in this thread. And both mentions involved Winchester shells of one type or another. You hear it all the time, but how can it be? Sure there may be less significant influences, the type of wad and such, but recoil is so principally a function of shot weight and velocity. How should we try to explain a brand difference among shells with the same major specifications? I suppose burn rate of the powder could make a difference, but it is still a
mystery to me.


For sure you'd think just looking at payload and velocity should tell the entire story but it definitely does not. Could be burn rates, could be the box is wrong about velo, could be a wad difference....who knows? Have said before xx weight at xx velo in AA always recoils more than the same specs of other brands.


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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:40 pm 
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Rooster booster wrote:
Ain’t no ‘truths’ in shotgunning except for putting the center of the swarm on target more often.

Wait, wait! So when I miss, it isn’t true? Oh, I really like that. Unlimited Mulligans. Yeah, man. {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:42 pm 
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No. When you miss it’s not because of your equipment. It’s on you.....all on you.


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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:43 pm 
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birdhunter39 wrote:
Could be burn rates,


This ^^^^ Rio's come to mind for me and felt recoil and some others, so I pretty much stick to two brands that are comfortable to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:57 pm 
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So much agreement about this. Hard to argue with it. But a blind test would be fun. O/U preloaded with mystery shells at random that the shooter couldn’t see. Also spent cartridges removed without shooter seeing them. Then the recoil scored on a scale from 1-10. Several repetitions of each of maybe 5 brands with the same shot weight and velocity. All loaded randomly. Perhaps 10 shooters. Now those results would be interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:04 pm 
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yep i'd love to see that done. i don't doubt there's a mental component to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:00 pm 
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It's all a matter of what you can tolerate over time and how well your gun fits. For me, I never felt over matched shooting 1200 fps one and an eight ounce 12 gauge shells for sporting. One ounce 1250 for FITASC. I don't blame my misses on equipment or shells.


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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:36 pm
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My 1 oz 1180 shell is the AA extra lite target load. I’ve also used the Remington 1 oz 1185 STS with equal results but they tend to be more expensive and harder to find. The AA shell is my go-to cartridge.
Cheers Gofer


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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:49 pm
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Thanks for all the great post guys.

Very informative and good logic.

I am just a weekend warrior and charity event shooter at our local club, but I have noticed they a few challenging targets, but not sure of the distance.

I think I'm going to go with 1 oz loads around 1200 fps or 1 & 1/8 oz loads around 1150 fps.

With these I am just going to keep shooting and try to get better.


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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:20 am 
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I shouldn’t tell you guys this for my own good, but WTH, I have a decent stockpile. Cabela’s has just restocked all their Herter’s target shells. Broad line of 1 and 1 1/8 oz offerings in 7.5, 8, and 9 shot varieties. Light loads at popular sporting velocities. Decent price on the 250 round case of $59.99 with free shipping. Only not having to pay the tax would make it any better by today’s standards.

There are review rumors that these shells don’t work well in automatics, but I don’t know anything about that. I have been satisfied with their performance in my O/Us. The other rumor is that they are made by Winchester and are fairly similar to Super Targets. That seems about right to me based on having shot about 2,000 of them already, but I couldn’t say for sure. The boxes certainly resemble Win boxes not considering the printing, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Target Loads for Sporting Clays
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:35 pm 
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Cut one of the Herter's open and see what wad is inside. I've never seen Rio, Federal, Remington loads with Win AA wads.




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