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 Post subject: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Clays.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:14 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 1964
The above book is temporarily out of print/out-of-stock at Amazon at the moment but more are on the way. :D

https://www.peteblakeley.com




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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:22 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
Posts: 448
Thanks for the update.

Funny thing. I was shooting with a guy last week who was way rusty and he missed about 50 in a row. I was sure he was way in front, but what are the chances of that? It sure looked like he was swinging the gun way through the target before pulling the trigger. Like tons of follow through before even firing the shot. Finally I was desperate for him to have some success, so against my better judgement I said that I thought he was way out in front. Another guy with us said unpossible. But sure enough he shortened his swing and started hitting targets with regularity. I think he felt a big dose of relief. I know I did. It is hard to watch a train wreck even if you can’t look away.

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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:09 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:20 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Kingwood TX
High,y recommend the book and video. Was especially helpful to me. Quartering shots particularly

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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:01 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 1964
Fal777. Thank you for your comment. When the book was first released it was viewed with suspicion by many who said that for sporting clay targets, with all the variables involved, the methodology in the book "couldn't possibly work". Since then, many like you have found out that it actually does so more have been printed. :D

https://www.peteblakeley.com


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:50 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 96
Hi Pete, thanks for taking the time to write these books and film the dvd's. I wish I would've stumbled on to your teachings earlier in my progression but I am still under the belief you can teach an "old dog new tricks".

On your site, I see a video produced with Bruce Scott which I only met once at the nationals (was on the squad behind me). I found him to be a gentleman and made the event 10x the experience. His video library has helped a lot of us and continue to do so-


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:26 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 1964
Hi Crushinem. Yes I agree, Bruce Scott and his son Richard at Sunrise Productions are good guys, over the years their quality instructional DVDs have helped a lot of shooters to improve their game. And I'm pleased to say there seems to be renewed interest in both "You're Behind it!" and the "Reading Targets" books. I'm not doing lessons at the moment because of the Corvid virus here in Texas so perhaps that's why?


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:02 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 1964
Crushinem. I just found out that Bruce passed a year ago, I had no idea. He will be missed by many in the shooting industry. Hopefully Richard will continue to produce the DVDs at Sunrise Productions.


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:47 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2268
Location: Attica, Mi
I have two of your DVDs and thankful I found them. I was looking ahead to where I wanted the bird and shot to intercept, and your 1, 2, 3, 4 penny lead helped. Most my friends look at the bird and " see " the barrels in front of it. It seems so much easier to look down the rib where I want the shot to go and " see " the bird behind the barrels. The gun is suppose to shoot where you're looking - right ?

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Venue shotgun chairman of the LCSC and the LPSXSA


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:26 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 1964
bladesmith. Yes, that's correct. But there are still many others that try to convince us that "the gun must shoot where we look" and then "always focus on the target." Once you have a repertoire of sight pictures, it is easy to shoot where you know the target is going to be by the time the shot gets there. Lots of top shooters including Richard Faulds, Jon Kruger and many others get to the top by doing just that. :)


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:26 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2268
Location: Attica, Mi
BINGO !!!

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Venue shotgun chairman of the LCSC and the LPSXSA


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:04 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 1964
The Unit Lead system book is now back in stock at Amazon and the books are also available from my web. site. Please e mail me if you have problems understanding anything and I will be more than happy to explain. :D

https://www.peteblakeley.com


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:47 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3176
pete blakeley wrote:
bladesmith. Yes, that's correct. But there are still many others that try to convince us that "the gun must shoot where we look" and then "always focus on the target." Once you have a repertoire of sight pictures, it is easy to shoot where you know the target is going to be by the time the shot gets there. Lots of top shooters including Richard Faulds, Jon Kruger and many others get to the top by doing just that. :)


That’s funny Pete, as I took 6 or so different day lessons from Jon during the late 80s and early 90s, and I don’t recall him ever mentioning this look in front methodology. He was strictly a focus on the target guy, at least when I took lessons from him. And, he was at the top of his game at that time.

Jon’s main shooting instructor at that time was a bloke from the UK named Jack Mitchell. He set up Jack to give lessons all over the USA, and I took at least 20 days of lessons from him over a 10 year period of time in the 90s. Jack was strictly a swing through, eyes on target guy — at least in the time I spent with him.

I think it’s fair to say that the very vast majority of shooters here in the US — both elite and everyone else — go with EYES on the target. One would think there’s good reasons for that.


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:49 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5735
Pete, some time ago, you mentioned getting your own sub forum here.....how’s that coming along?


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:07 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 1964
Rooster. I paid my $1,200 up front like you are required to do. Several months later I had heard nothing so I contacted the admin. and they apologized for taking so long. So I waited another 3 months and contacted the admin again. Still no result. Sometime around that time SGW was sold and I asked for my $1,200 back. It took me another 8 months to get my money back so I decided to abandon the idea. But I'm sure Curly will confirm this if necessary.

Muledriver. I don't understand why you need to get involved here but here goes.
On page 50 of the December 1998 issue of Sporting Clay magazine there was an article written by Nick Siseley about Jon Kruger entitled "Stella Star of the Game". At that time Jon was US SC Champion. I quote directly from the article:- << "You've heard the axiom over and over, "look at the target, look at the target". Surprisingly, this isn't what Kruger does. Instead, he's trying to focus on a spot somewhere out ahead of the target. Why? Because that's where his shot-string has to go.>>

Now, I certainly absolutely do not want to argue with you about this. But you might want to ask some of the top guys including Tom Mack, Pat Lieske and many others what they do?


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:15 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5735
Fair enough, but you could hawk your book in the ‘other’ classifieds section, and your coaching service in the ‘professional services’ section. Just sayin....


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:43 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 1964
Rooster. Others promote their books/services etc. on here and it doesn't seem to upset anyone. So, I have a question for you. Is it because I'm a Brit? The reason I ask is because Salopian is a friend of mine, a very experienced coach and he often experiences the same hostility. We put information on here in response to questions and both of us genuinely like to help shooters. My original post was because shooters were e mailing me and telling me they could not buy the UL book on Amazon. Sorry if my response on here offended you in any way.


Last edited by pete blakeley on Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:57 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5735
Nope. Not at all.


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:02 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3176
pete blakeley wrote:

Now, I certainly absolutely do not want to argue with you about this. But you might want to ask some of the top guys including Tom Mack, Pat Lieske and many others what they do?


Nothing to argue about Pete. I was just saying that in my 4 lessons with Jon, he never mentioned “looking in front” once. Neither did his long time shooting instructor in 20 lessons or so.

As far as your looking in front method goes, I’m sure it works just fine for some people. One of the local guys uses it and does quite well.

But from what I’ve seen, the vast majority of shooters and top instructors don’t believe in it. I have to wonder why.


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:57 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 1964
Gary. So do I. But over the years the number of times this topic has been aired on here, nobody has come up with logical answer to explain why we go to great lengths on a pattern plate to make sure our shotguns "Shoot where we look" and then say that "looking AT the target (on a 40 yard crosser) makes us put the gun 10 feet in front of it. Or 16 feet in front of a 60 yard crosser :D

I have an article called "Missing by Concentration" written by Gough Thomas Garwood. He was the editor of Shooting Times in the UK for 30 years. His book was published in 1971. He concludes the article by saying quote:- << "I arrived at the theoretical conclusion that I was missing crossing birds simply by my intense focus on them. No matter how much I thought I was leading them, my gun was pointing where I was looking ----at the bird, instead if some distance ahead of it.">> Strange he said the same as Kruger all those years ago isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: You're Behind it! The Unit Lead system for Sporting Cla
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:54 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3176
Pete,

I think the answer is that focusing on the target, and "feeling the lead" (doesn't that sound familiar to you?) works better for more people.

I've tried your looking ahead method, and it just doesn't work as well for me.

Steve Smith has an article in this months "The Retriever Dog Journal" about how famed duck hunter Nash Buckingham advocated what he called "The Moving Spot" method on long range waterfowl. It is basically the same thing as you advocate.

Nash was a SxS shotgunner, and one of Steve's heros. Steve even edited/produced the book "Mr. Buck:The Autobiography of Nash Buckingham". Here's what Steve wrote in this recent article about "The Moving Spot"

Quote:
......is it an easy skill and technique to learn? My experience is, no, it's not. The reason is, I find myself many times unable to take my eyes off the bird. In effect, to make this system work with any regularity, you have to almost ignore the bird, seeing it only in your peripheral vision, and really making that spot the real target.


For me, this makes a lot of sense. The bird is a real thing, and is visible, and this moving spot in front is an invisible thing. What's happening, at least in my minds eye, is you are shooting at a spot that you really can't see, anyway. How does one focus on something that is invisible?

For me, it's tough to shoot where you're looking when what you are looking at is invisible. Much easier to focus on a real object, and in my peripheral vision, feel the lead. That works, at least for me, and apparently many more other people as well.




Last edited by Mule Driver on Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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