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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:53 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80
I shoot a 1 1/8oz load once in a while for practice, I mostly shoot Rio Star Team 1oz loads for all my tournaments, my favorites are 8's and travel at 1350. They make me feel confident, now I'm not Bill McGuire or Andy Duffy but I shoot my best with them. Never change my choke, I use Imp Mod. less to take my mind away.




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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:28 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:48 pm
Posts: 341
:D :D :D

If you think this
Quote:
Those 27 yard trapshooters know a lot about shotgun ammo performance at long distances.


Your definition of long distances is a lot different to mine.

Sporting traps are most often further away that 27 yards and the clay goes 'thataway'

Also some seem to think that the shot travels with less kinetic energy if there was only 1 ounce in the shell :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:37 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 341
Browning Citori Guy wrote:
:D :D :D

If you think this
Quote:
Those 27 yard trapshooters know a lot about shotgun ammo performance at long distances.


Your definition of long distances is a lot different to mine.

Sporting traps are most often further away that 27 yards and the clay goes 'thataway'

Also some seem to think that the shot travels with less kinetic energy if there was only 1 ounce in the shell :roll:

It does...in total. The total energy of 1 oz of shot at X velocity is 89% of the total energy of 1 1/8 oz of shot at that same velocity. But each pellet has the same energy in either case. Just more of them in the higher weight load.


Last edited by friend of a friend on Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:03 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 337
chandelle wrote:
my favorites are 8's and travel at 1350.


Payload, fps, recoil energy (ft/lbs)

1 ounce, 1350 fps, 20.5 ft/lbs.

1 1/8 ounce, 1150 fps, 18.8 ft/lbs


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:56 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:52 pm
Posts: 611
Location: Michigan
Browning Citori Guy wrote:
:D :D :D

If you think this
Quote:
Those 27 yard trapshooters know a lot about shotgun ammo performance at long distances.


Your definition of long distances is a lot different to mine.

Sporting traps are most often further away that 27 yards and the clay goes 'thataway'

Also some seem to think that the shot travels with less kinetic energy if there was only 1 ounce in the shell :roll:


Well your "definition of long distances is a lot different to mine" The average distance targets are broke from the 27 is 47 yards, that average is from the good shooters that belong on the 27. What SC shoot has bunch of targets broke at 47+++yards ?


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:32 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6533
Location: Mascoutah IL
I've shot plenty of 1 oz but mostly shoot 1 1/8 oz in 12 gauge.

I don't know anyone who centers the target in the pattern 100% of the time and the extra shot will, at some point be the difference between a dead or lost target. May be 1 of 100 or 1 of 1000, but it will make a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:16 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:02 am
Posts: 98
DEG wrote:
I've shot plenty of 1 oz but mostly shoot 1 1/8 oz in 12 gauge.

I don't know anyone who centers the target in the pattern 100% of the time and the extra shot will, at some point be the difference between a dead or lost target. May be 1 of 100 or 1 of 1000, but it will make a difference.


And for many people the extra recoil from the extra 1/8th oz of shot will cause more lost targets than the "fuller" pattern gains them.

For some the recoil does not cause issues. For some it does. I find it amazing how after 3 pages so many people refuse to see both sides of the coin on this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:02 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 337
Lacyb wrote:
And for many people the extra recoil from the extra 1/8th oz of shot will cause more lost targets than the "fuller" pattern gains them.


But are they the winners?


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:15 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5990
Ever heard of FITASC? The best will always be the best........


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:48 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2387
Bingo one, you hit the nail squarely on the head about trap shooters and flinching.

There is another kind of flinch thought. It is called a sight flince and is caused by poor gunfit or eye dominance. I would say that both of these things cause this kind of flinch but RECOIL is the enemy and makes us go to a release trigger. When I shot trap, I finally went to one and it helped me a lot. By the time I quit shooting tournament trao, I had switched to a low recoil load. I went to a 2 3/4 dram load that was around 1150 fps. could still shoot 1 1/8 loads but when I started using one ounce loade, I could shoot faster shells. I always shot the lower speed ammo for 16 yard singles and doubles. then a faster 0ne ounce load for handicap.

To the person who said that the extra 1/8 of shoot would make a more effective pattern, I will have to respectfully disagree. Yes, there is more shot in the air but most of it is in the form of fyers and while I guess you could have a magic B B and chip a target, most trap shooters that I shot with looked for the smoke in their breaks. This let them know where they were with the core. This way, if they knocked a piece off the back of the target, they would be able to correct it. The same goes for a piece off the front. I knew a lot of trap shooters who could put the core on the target every time the pulled the trigger. High pressure and tight chokes plus the extra 1/8 ounce of shoot creates more flyers. Now this is just my opinion just like your thoughts are your opinion. I am not trying to stir the post here but I am trying to give reasons that 1/18 loads can hurt the shooters in more ways than one. There are many great thoughts in this thread. As I have already said, a shooter needs to use whatever he or she has confidence in. This will break more targets for most people!!!!

Mike McAlpine an old trap shooter


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:14 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 337
To me 1 1/8 ounce thru an automatic doesn't kick more than 1 ounce thru my O/U. If 1 ounce an O/U doesn't negatively affect shooting, why would 1 1/8 ounce thru an automatic?


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:21 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5710
Most flinches are visual in nature, not recoil related. Checking the barrel at the break point and occluding the target with the barrel the 2 biggest suspects. Both can cause a disconnect and a panic trigger pull aka flinch. Shoot a low gun and let me know if you flinch. I know people who flinch shooting a BB gun or .22 short.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:19 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2745
Location: Central Maine
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
To me 1 1/8 ounce thru an automatic doesn't kick more than 1 ounce thru my O/U. If 1 ounce an O/U doesn't negatively affect shooting, why would 1 1/8 ounce thru an automatic?


Perception of felt recoil and the effects of recoil are different for everyone. Recoil is also cumulative over time and what is tolerable now may not be at some point in the future.

Ultimately you should do whatever you feel is best for you and your shooting program.

_________________
CG Summit Sporting
Beretta A400 Excel "Black" Cole Special
Browning Citori Crossover Target

NSCA 602398


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:27 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 337
dpe2002 wrote:
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
To me 1 1/8 ounce thru an automatic doesn't kick more than 1 ounce thru my O/U. If 1 ounce an O/U doesn't negatively affect shooting, why would 1 1/8 ounce thru an automatic?


Recoil is also cumulative over time and what is tolerable now may not be at some point in the future.


Doubtful.

But if you are shooting 1 ounce thru an O/U, you'll be there as soon as I am using my automatic.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:33 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 337
It seems to annoy those that can't handle 1 1/8 ounce loads that others can use them.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:52 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2745
Location: Central Maine
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
It seems to annoy those that can't handle 1 1/8 ounce loads that others can use them.


Not at all. I know many shooters that can shoot a high volume of heavy loads without issue. I agree with you that the gas gun action is more forgiving and does soften up the perception of felt recoil to some degree.

I am one of the unfortunate shooters that apparently has a low tolerance for recoil. I developed a severe flinch and have been shooting release triggers for the last 8 years. I flinch without use of a release trigger no matter if I am shooting an auto or SXS or pump or O/U. I flinch with .410 too. It sucks. But that’s my problem and no one else’s.

I am not being snarky when I say you should do whatever you want to do. I mean it sincerely.

I also stand by my statement that recoil and its effects are cumulative. Many others will agree with me and it’s fine that you don’t.

_________________
CG Summit Sporting
Beretta A400 Excel "Black" Cole Special
Browning Citori Crossover Target

NSCA 602398


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:10 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:08 pm
Posts: 2698
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
It seems to annoy those that can't handle 1 1/8 ounce loads that others can use them.


Is anyone surprised that this turned into a macho man discussion?


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:26 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7679
Location: Central ND
drawdc,

The reason these types of threads turn into a macho man discussion, is folks that can't handle 1 1/8 oz. loads end up 'telling' those that can handle 1 1/8 oz. loads that lighter loads are better because of less recoil.

There are many shooters that can handle 1 1/8 oz. loads just fine, and regardless of the smaller is better mentality, why constantly 'tell' folks that they are all effed up and shouldn't be using 1 1/8 oz. loads?

It isn't a macho man discussion, more like a tired of listening to BS discussion.

I like both 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. loads but shoot more 1 oz. loads by far......but that is my choice. Just like shooting 1 1/8 oz. loads is a choice. If you can handle the heavier loads you have an advantage, not a huge advantage but an advantage just the same.

No amount of telling someone that they can't handle the recoil of the 1 1/8 oz. loads when they can is going to change that, nor is it going to win friends and influence people.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Last edited by dogchaser37 on Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:42 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 337
Handling the recoil from 1 1/8 ounce is not a macho thing with me. It's a gun thing. I can handle it because I shoot a semi-automatic when I shoot 1 1/8 ounce. And I only do that when every target counts, which isn't very often.

Note the title of the thread - "Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?". How many semi-auto shooters replied.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:14 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1318
Roger Gascoigne wrote:
and extra 1/8th of shot will NOT break the clay if the gun is not at the right place when you pull the trigger


Okay, so an ounce will not break any target that 7/8 ounce won't break if the gun is at the right place.

Okay, so 7/8 ounce will not break any target that 3/4 ounce won't break if the gun is at the right place.

Okay, so 3/4 ounce will not break any target that 5/8 ounce won't break if the gun is at the right place.

Okay, so 5/8 ounce will not break any target that 1/2 ounce won't break if the gun is at the right place.

Okay, so 1/2 ounce will not break any target that 22LR won't break if the gun is at the right place.

But if you are off only 1 inch in any of the above loads, a bigger load with one inch more coverage
would have got the shot,

Do you want the extra inch?

End of discussion.




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