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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:25 pm 
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Location: Central Maine
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
dpe2002 wrote:
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
To me 1 1/8 ounce thru an automatic doesn't kick more than 1 ounce thru my O/U. If 1 ounce an O/U doesn't negatively affect shooting, why would 1 1/8 ounce thru an automatic?


Recoil is also cumulative over time and what is tolerable now may not be at some point in the future.


Doubtful.

But if you are shooting 1 ounce thru an O/U, you'll be there as soon as I am using my automatic.


I have shot over 60K registered targets and probably more than that none registered and practise. 75-80 % thru Beretta 391 or A-400. I still shoot a fair number of 1 1/8 ounce but slower stuff. 1050-1150fps.

I just acquired a CG O/U and will shoot more 1 ounce thru that. I will have to shoot the CG for a long time before I catch up to the trigger time with my gas guns.



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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:39 pm 
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dep,

Now that is using some common sense. Low pressure ammo equals less recoil but less weight will also help. I have no problem shooting 1 1/8 loads. I just have found that it doesn't really make any difference in my breaks but it does in my scores, especially when I am shooting all day. Shoot what you have the most confidence in.

Mike McAlpine


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:47 pm 
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Thanks Curly,

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:08 pm
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dogchaser37 wrote:
drawdc,

The reason these types of threads turn into a macho man discussion, is folks that can't handle 1 1/8 oz. loads end up 'telling' those that can handle 1 1/8 oz. loads that lighter loads are better because of less recoil.

There are many shooters that can handle 1 1/8 oz. loads just fine, and regardless of the smaller is better mentality, why constantly 'tell' folks that they are all effed up and shouldn't be using 1 1/8 oz. loads?

It isn't a macho man discussion, more like a tired of listening to BS discussion.

I like both 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. loads but shoot more 1 oz. loads by far......but that is my choice. Just like shooting 1 1/8 oz. loads is a choice. If you can handle the heavier loads you have an advantage, not a huge advantage but an advantage just the same.

No amount of telling someone that they can't handle the recoil of the 1 1/8 oz. loads when they can is going to change that, nor is it going to win friends and influence people.


I didn't see this conversation going that way at all. I think the vast majority of the 1 ounce advocates simply feel that the reduced recoil effects buys them more targets than the extra 1/8 ounce of shot. Simply opinions, there is really no way to prove it either way.

I can handle 1 1/8th loads as well as the next guy, but after I had a world class shooter convince me to shoot 1 ounce, I don't want to go back. Telling us we are jealous because we can't handle the bigger loads is machismo posturing at it's best.

It is an interesting topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:42 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
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If anyone has any doubts about 1 ounce or 7/8ths ounce loads I suggest you watch some real FITASC and Bunker Trap.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:11 pm 
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Quality 12 gauge loads in any of the three payload weights, will break targets consistently at distances that are greater than most of our abilities. Given the same quality shot thrown at the same velocity the heavier payload, will, through most shotguns, have a larger effective pattern than a lighter payload.

The question is not if a 1 1/8, 1 or 7/8 oz. load will break a target.

The question is what load is most effective for you and allows you to break the most targets?

So it comes down to the individual. How well do you handle recoil? Which is not a question of who is more macho but a question of our individual physiology.

I personally could careless what payload weight is used, just as long as the rules apply equally to each of us.....which they do. If someone wants to shoot 1 1/8 oz, loads @ 1350 FPS great. If another another wants 7/8 oz. @ 1200 FPS go for it.

Which is better? The person that is the better shooter.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:24 am 
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Dog,

Good reply, You and I are of the same mind set.

Mike McAlpine


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:13 pm 
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Mike,

{hs#

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:22 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2745
Location: Central Maine
dogchaser37 wrote:
Quality 12 gauge loads in any of the three payload weights, will break targets consistently at distances that are greater than most of our abilities. Given the same quality shot thrown at the same velocity the heavier payload, will, through most shotguns, have a larger effective pattern than a lighter payload.

The question is not if a 1 1/8, 1 or 7/8 oz. load will break a target.

The question is what load is most effective for you and allows you to break the most targets?

So it comes down to the individual. How well do you handle recoil? Which is not a question of who is more macho but a question of our individual physiology.

I personally could careless what payload weight is used, just as long as the rules apply equally to each of us.....which they do. If someone wants to shoot 1 1/8 oz, loads @ 1350 FPS great. If another another wants 7/8 oz. @ 1200 FPS go for it.

Which is better? The person that is the better shooter.


Reasonable and balanced. This approach can apply to so many things we talk about. Ultimately we are responsible for our own choices and need to own the results we get.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:18 pm 
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dpe2002,

I am sure we have all seen this happen.

A shooter gets up at a station, the gun is choked lt mod/mod and shooting 1 oz. of 7 1/2's. There is a fast rabbit at 10 yards and a slow crossing target at 35 yards. The shooter breaks all the crossing targets, misses all the rabbits, and says 'I knew I should have put a cylinder choke in for the rabbit'. The next shooter up has the same setup and breaks all the targets.

It ain't the load and it ain't the chokes.....it is the person pulling the trigger.

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aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:48 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2745
Location: Central Maine
dogchaser37 wrote:
dpe2002,

I am sure we have all seen this happen.

A shooter gets up at a station, the gun is choked lt mod/mod and shooting 1 oz. of 7 1/2's. There is a fast rabbit at 10 yards and a slow crossing target at 35 yards. The shooter breaks all the crossing targets, misses all the rabbits, and says 'I knew I should have put a cylinder choke in for the rabbit'. The next shooter up has the same setup and breaks all the targets.

It ain't the load and it ain't the chokes.....it is the person pulling the trigger.


No doubt about that. Focusing on the fundamentals with confidence and a good plan is way more productive.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:47 pm 
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Even at 40 yards, a rabbit will take very little lead. This is because the rabbit is slowing down everytime it hits the ground. A target in the air, while it will slow down some, it is nothing like a rabbit. One of the misconceptions for rabbits is that you need 7 1/2 shot and a tight choke to break a them, not so. Yes rabbits are made with more pitch and clay but you have a much wider area for the shot to strike.

Again, shooters want to hit the target with the core of the pattern . 8' have a core that will have more pellet strikes. More strikes, not larger shot will break this target. When I first started shooting sporting (1984) we use number 9 shot. 9's have a lot more pellets than 8's and of course a lot more than 7 1/2's. Also, we all shot cylinder. I might shoot skeet but that is not much difference. I normally shoot LM for many targets. If I feel that I need a tighter choke on a given target, I will change just because I don't want a negative thought jumping around in my brain. I have found that when I pass 40 yards, a rabbit will need a little more lead. The best way to practice rabbits is to start at 20 yards and move back in five yard increments. When you start to miss, add a little more lead. By the way, for most rabbits take no lead. Try shooting right at them and watch them powder. Sometimes a gravity will actually take a negative lead. Especially for shooters with a fast muzzle speed. They tend to blow right by the target. Also, when shooting in fine dirt, never judge a miss if the dust is behind the target.

Mike McAlpine
The Clay Target Academy

"Inside the Mind of a Target Setter"

If my target setting book doesn't lose money, I will publish another book on shooting and competing.

These are my options are mine and I have tested them form a lot of shooting and watching people shoot. If you disagree, that is fine. All I am trying to do is help new shooters with their game. I am not making a cent from my post on this site!


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:03 pm 
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oops,

I really got off subject in the above post. I guess I should have read several of the post above it. Sorry about hijacking this thread but my comments about shooting rabbits is factual. LOL

Mike McAlpine

Getting older is a b***h sometimes.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:48 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3184
dogchaser37 wrote:

The question is not if a 1 1/8, 1 or 7/8 oz. load will break a target.

The question is what load is most effective for you and allows you to break the most targets?

So it comes down to the individual. How well do you handle recoil? Which is not a question of who is more macho but a question of our individual .


I’m on the same page here as dog.

After shooting this game since 1984, I came to the conclusion years ago that:

1). Yes, in a pure since, 1 1/8 loads are going to get you some extra targets here and there, especially when you’re talking distance.

2). Yes, everything equal component wise, 1 1/8 oz loads are going to have more recoil than 1 oz loads, and there’s a target loss cost to that. The hidden thing here is what Jack Mitchell once said that “most shooters don’t realize recoil is hurting their scores” and keep on pounding away with big bullets.

So, it’s up to the individual to figure out what works best for them. For me, and I’m not overly recoil sensitive, the 1 1/8 oz loads extra recoil costs me more targets than the extra 1/8 ounce of pellets gain. Especially when you’re talking about 200 or so targets in a day, for 2, 3, or 4 days in succession.

I shoot a 8 pound 9 ounce Perazzi with mostly high quality B&P 1 ounce loads. It no longer matters what someone else likes or uses, because I know what works the best for me, especially at 68 years old.

Besides, if’n I thot 1 1/8 oz loads were that much better, I’d shoot a semi-automatic — but I don’t want to do that. I’ve shot a Perazzi for over 20 years now, and will never change. Ever.


Last edited by Mule Driver on Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:13 pm 
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Mark, That is why when that happens I take 1 choke out and use 9's in that barrel.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:22 pm 
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Mule Driver,

I have been shooting 1 oz. loads since 1992 for most of my clay target shooting.

I do like 1 1/8 oz. loads and for 100 targets they are OK. But the second 100 I can feel the fatigue starting to set in.

So most of what I shoot are 1 oz. loads of #7.5's at 1250 FPS and I do shoot an SA. Those loads allow me to shoot as much as I want without any issue. It was the right decision back in 1992 when I was 36 and it is still the right choice for me now at 64.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
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I think it’s interesting that Wendell Cherry was asked a few years ago, why he shoots 1 1/8 oz loads. He said it was because they wouldn’t let him shoot 1 1/4 ounce ones.

I recently read where Wendell is now switching to 1 ounce loads after his shoulder surgery.

It’s all about finding out what works best for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
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This is interesting reading the experiences of shooters Like Dogchaser and the Mule driver .
I was shooting Skeet targets with 2 live bird shooters last weekend , both were shooting 1 1/8 oz
loads and I was using reloads of 1 oz 1250 fps . We played horse after one round of regulation
skeet . After that , we moved back 5 yds each time we ran a station . We eventually were shooting
targets from the parking lot , which was , 58 yds to the Middle stake . After 7 boxes of ammo
each , the live bird shooters said , it sure was nice shooting those light loads and I had to agree
as I'm 5 years older than the shooters above !


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:55 pm 
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Sounds like fun Raven!


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:24 pm 
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You should not be surprised that I don't shoot a semi-auto and I don't shoot 1 1/8 when I don't have to, but nevertheless I still have a comment. LOL

These days we can't always get what we want. Right now I only have 1 oz loads, but instead of only 1180 fps velocity, the speeds range from 1060 to 1235 fps. Still really not a wide range at all. Anyway I am finding no discernible differences among them. So in a pinch it isn't hard to get by. Being too choosy probably doesn't make sense.




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