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 Post subject: Re: Comments from the 'Peanut Gallery'
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:46 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 2599
Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
Lose the curved recoil pad.
Get a new, flat one made of modern material such as that used by X-Coil or Limbsaver.
You will notice the improvement, both in mount and recoil reduction.

Dick Bennett talks about the problems a curved pad brings and the advantages of a flat/straight pad in his book Trapshooting is a Game of Opposites, and I agree with him.




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 Post subject: Re: Comments from the 'Peanut Gallery'
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:24 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 226
Location: Central NH
mudpack wrote:
Lose the curved recoil pad.
Get a new, flat one made of modern material such as that used by X-Coil or Limbsaver.
You will notice the improvement, both in mount and recoil reduction.

Dick Bennett talks about the problems a curved pad brings and the advantages of a flat/straight pad in his book Trapshooting is a Game of Opposites, and I agree with him.

Rollin has suggested the same. I bought a pad from SKB that would also shorten up the LOP, which according to the info that Rollin has offered, I should do. I wasn't very impressed with it, and haven't had it fitted. I'll look into the ones you suggest.


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 Post subject: Re: Comments from the 'Peanut Gallery'
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:00 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:54 pm
Posts: 2941
Location: Crump, Michigan
[quote="painter*"]When you keep your head on the stock you break every bird, and then made the motion of lifting his head and said...Oh look. I missed."

quote]


I have found this to be true in both all aspects of my shooting/hunting. I've noticed that when I hunt with a new dog, that I will PEAK (lift my head and miss the bird) because I feel that I need to see the bird come down, so the dog won't loose it...

That's tough on dogs... My wife is my first critic and she's correct. She'll tell me to..."STOP PEAKING, you're screwing up the dog!"

Good luck, I think you have found sage advice.

Best,
Maggs


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 Post subject: Re: Comments from the 'Peanut Gallery'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:51 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 5969
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Just my personal experience (and I am not in the same league as guys like Maltz and Rollin) but:
Some days I just shoot poorly. Somedays I shoot well. On those good days, if I miss, I USUALLY know why I missed. But, every once in a while I think "I really was on that one and not a chip." For the next one I pull the gun really tight against my shoulder, get my cheek really hard down on the comb, lean into it and usually get a black cloud. Kind of makes you think that would be good to do every time.


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 Post subject: Re: Comments from the 'Peanut Gallery'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:50 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 6712
Location: Creston, Iowa
Stopping the peak or head lift is easier done in form and pre-shot routine. Find a way or an approach that helps set the shot up for your head(back sight) staying in a consistent location during the move and shot.

The bead check is a bad habit that comes from a short fall in confidence or trying to see the lead of the barrel/bead to target. Another reason to use enough choke to dirt ball targets when centered. Not only a confidence builder, but your subconscious learns to recognize the sight picture and physical coordination of a well placed shot.

Something that can help or strive for, is to find the POI that centers targets using your balance, gun dynamics, and trigger timing. A 1/32nd sized washer up or down is less than a 1 inch of POI up or down at target distance makes a difference. We are the only variable. Our vision, handling, and trigger timing varies from one shot to another, but we have a 10 to 12 inch pattern center that is capable of breaking the target every time within that circumference. The closer to center the POI setting, the better results. Giving us a forgiving margin for human error. Each gun is different. Weight, balance, handling, trigger and POI based on how it fits us. Your advantage is to get that gun to place shot center to where you look. Only trial and error, shot down the tube, and being able to measure results will find those setting and fit.

We all have a basic POI preference based on our speed, gun control and preference in sight pictures. For me that is about 100% high, but some guns the setting ends about 80% high. Many here like to see a visual contact covering the target with bead. A sight picture that I think is a mistake, but your the best judge and if you make it work, its right. The opposite of that is pulling the trigger before you get to the target visually, needing 100% to 150% high POI. Control of the move and trigger is key. What helps you gain good gun control during the shot is right. What helps you stop jumping out of control is right. What helps you maintain a consistent point and delivery is right. Similar for all of us, but different by detail in technique.

If you want to be a good trap shooter it is more than good equipment. Its more technique and control than what you spend on gear. Find what is perfect, then expect it to change with experience and experiment. You will experience a more shallow gap between good days and bad. 1 or 2 targets will be the gap. Scoring a 25 and the next trap 18 is only about you

Shoot'em in the center.......Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Comments from the 'Peanut Gallery'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:31 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 226
Location: Central NH
Just as an update to all this...

I had my eyes examined and got new glasses. I not only can see just one target, but also the front sight. It was a completely foreign picture. I don't like seeing the sight. It's distracting.

Now to reply to some of the comments. I shoot better, and worse, round to round. I know it's in my head. I shot last week, and twice I shot 15 straight, promptly started thing, and fell apart. Ended up shooting 20 and 22.

I don't think that equipment is really my issue. I honestly believe it's the mush between my ears trying to duplicate what I do on a good hit. I'm still a new shooter. I feel I have good basics, but need more 'seat' time.

Thanks to all that have offered input.


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 Post subject: Re: Comments from the 'Peanut Gallery'
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:01 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:11 am
Posts: 409
Location: Cheyenne Wyoming
Maltz is spot on with his assessment so this post doesn't disagree with his post it simply adds to his.

When someone lifts their head 90+% of the time it is an eye issue. Either they didn't see the target or the off eye took over.

Not seeing the target includes but is probably not limited to:
NOT seeing the target leave the house-
losing sight of the target during the move
having a stray thought enter your head and then thinking about it
trying to be too careful and looking at the bead
trying to control the shot (this never works)- look at the target and let the gun do it's thing
doing something consciously during the shot (this guarantees thinking)

The off eye taking over can cause a head lift because it creates visual confusion, resulting in a head lift in an attempt to see the damned thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Comments from the 'Peanut Gallery'
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:57 am
Posts: 20973
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Lifting the head is second only to stopping your swing when it comes to missing Trap targets. I think we've beaten that subject pretty well here.

This leads to the question, just how do you keep your head on the stock?

The best answer is gun fit. If the gun fits properly, it's less likely you'll lift your head. Thank you Rollin.

However, there is something else that hasn't been mentioned yet; follow-through. Take a look at this video:


He's talking about hold points in the video, but that's not the lesson here. Watch closely as he shoots. Where is his cheek 1 second (count one thousand one) AFTER the shot? It's still on the gun-stock with perfect cheek weld. Also, where does the muzzle move after the shot? It keeps going in the same direction. This is follow-through.

Follow-through is the least taught and most overlooked aspect of shooting and yet it is the answer to most shooting form issues. If you have good follow-through, your head WILL stay on the stock. So, forget about trying to keep your head down and work on your follow-through.



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