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 Post subject: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:02 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Posts: 262
Location: Nassau County, NY
The setting: public course, 5 shooters, one stand open, waiting line, cold out, 2 hours before closing time.

While you're waiting you notice one shooter looks like he just took the semi auto out of the box earlier in the day. Stance and mount suggest he hasn't shot before. Seems to be fiddling with the gun a lot. Round ends and you step up. Mr. Fiddly stays in for a second round. After each shot he is having issues: shell not ejecting and he's ramming another shell in there with the spent one still in the gun. After each shot someone goes over to help him square away the gun. This goes on for 25 shots.

How long do you allow this to go on, either as one of the 4 other shooters or the puller from the range?

I'm new and appreciate when people are patient with me, but at least I know how to handle my gun and know not to point it toward others or hammer it against the ground when dealing with a malfunction. I really wanted to suggest that he step away and handle his issues without disrupting the game.

What would you do? Should the trapper have intervened?



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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:11 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 7463
Location: Upstate SC
Absolutely.

Somebody should have taken him aside and offered to help him out after the first squad finished.

Better yet; somebody that knows what they are doing should have quit shooting and offered to stand behind him and help him for at least a round. And then if he didn't take that advice he should have been asked to leave and maybe come back on a slower day and get some instruction.

In my opinion safety comes first. For the shooter himself and others at the range. After this comes the need to help new shooters learn the sport to help the sport grow. Somewhere in between comes respecting the needs of the established shooters to enjoy their round.

But if this was not a registered shoot or league shoot or something, the first thing the "regulars" should do is maybe to offer to standby behind him and show him the ropes. Assuming he is willing to listen and learn.


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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:57 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:50 pm
Posts: 41
Somebody should have put their gun back in the rack and helped him out. New shooters should be welcomed, helped out, and encouraged to return. With experience comes the knowledge to remove yourself from the line to sort out mechanical issues. He can leave the club with two opinions 'I was having issues with my new gun and they said I was slowing them down, asked me to stop and return when I figured it out' or 'it was a blast! I was having issues with my new gun and John, who was shooting next to me, stopped his round to help me out with it and even gave me some pointers. I can't wait to go back!'

Just my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:59 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 1411
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
I have loaned my BT-99 to other shooters when they were having problems with their gun while on a trap squad.


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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:52 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Posts: 262
Location: Nassau County, NY
It wasn't so much the speed/delay that piqued my concern was that someone else had to help him on every shot because he didn't know how to operate his gun and/or it was not cycling with his particular shells. Like I mentioned in the OP, people did go over and help him.

I've been the slower-downer and know how that feels but it wasn't due to mechanical issues. I just wondered if the puller had some responsibility--after seeing this go on for two rounds-- to suggest the guy to step aside and let other people enjoy the game.

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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:18 pm 
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To me the etiquette part is that if there are 5 people waiting to shoot that some one is allowed to shoot another round without waiting in line.

Also, if after the first 25 rounds he was not able to clear the gun himself he should have been taken to the patterning board or an unused trap to be taught how to operate his new gun. Some one should have at that time analyzed what the problem is. Usually new semi-autos need to be broken in with heavy ammo. Also steel base hulls have a tendency to stick in some guns.

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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:24 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:50 pm
Posts: 41
You are right, if there is a waiting line you go to the back of the line after a round. I don't know if that's the pullers responsibility because a lot of times they are just people helping out but somebody associated with the club should have stepped in. Just a simple 'I'm sorry sir but there is a wait line and we need to rotate everybody through, lets go get you signed up for another round' should do it. I always try to give them an easy out without embarrassment and they almost always take it.


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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:19 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 4:36 am
Posts: 19
Tell the shooter "I'd be willing to meet you here and go over the mechanics of your gun, and teach you shooting etiquette. Maybe we meet earlier in the day when there are fewer shooters waiting to shoot", then cast a knowing glance over at the queue waiting to shoot


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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:23 pm 
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Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
I've seen this a bunch. This is how I've always handled it...

I've fired so many rounds of Trap, my life won't be over if I miss a round today. If I witness what the OP saw, I'd immediately pull the guy aside after the first round. If I can determine there is nothing wrong with the gun, I'll give him a little lesson on gun operation before he steps up for the second round. When he does step up for the second round, I'll stand right next to/behind him. This way if he has any issues, I'm right there to help. I can usually get it sorted out before it's his turn again.

If there is an issue with the gun, I'll put another gun in his hands and get him back on the line. If he doesn't want to use the other gun, he's done until he can get his gun fixed.


If there are safety issues, that must be dealt with first. If they don't like talking about safety, they can shoot somewhere else.

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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:38 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 2826
Location: North Central West Virginia
Not having shot trap, but having shot other clay disciplines, why would this person be allowed to shoot without demonstrating proper knowledge of the gun and being given basic safety instruction? Seems like he would be a safety hazard to himself and the others around him.


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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:03 pm 
Utility Grade
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:44 am
Posts: 14
mjtripper wrote:
Somebody should have put their gun back in the rack and helped him out. New shooters should be welcomed, helped out, and encouraged to return. With experience comes the knowledge to remove yourself from the line to sort out mechanical issues. He can leave the club with two opinions 'I was having issues with my new gun and they said I was slowing them down, asked me to stop and return when I figured it out' or 'it was a blast! I was having issues with my new gun and John, who was shooting next to me, stopped his round to help me out with it and even gave me some pointers. I can't wait to go back!'

Just my opinion.

As a relatively new trap shooter, this would have been what I would have wanted and very much appreciated. The help and welcoming tone would have ensured that I come back.


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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:59 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Posts: 262
Location: Nassau County, NY
Halwg wrote:
Not having shot trap, but having shot other clay disciplines, why would this person be allowed to shoot without demonstrating proper knowledge of the gun and being given basic safety instruction? Seems like he would be a safety hazard to himself and the others around him.


Short answer: public course in the suburbs. You can drive in off the street, rent a gun or bring your own and walk onto the trap field or clays course no questions asked. I'm new and not an authority on anything but I've seen some pretty crazy stuff that makes my hair stand on end. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to shoot trap with a SD gun that looks more like a pistol and has maybe ten inches of barrel!!

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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:41 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 2542
Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
If the OP's situation was in competition, then any squad member OR the puller should have asked the new shooter to shoot a half dozen practice rounds to become familiar with the gun and the procedures before he continues in competition.
If the situation was "practice/casual" shooting, then you put up with it, offer to assist him, or come back another day.


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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:38 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:20 pm
Posts: 6598
Location: Mysterious Cities of Gold
I'd leave the guy alone unless he directly asked for help. One of the most hated things about public ranges in my eyes is people who feel the need to offer their help when it's not asked for.

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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:36 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:34 pm
Posts: 6140
Location: NE Oklahoma
Maser wrote:
I'd leave the guy alone unless he directly asked for help. One of the most hated things about public ranges in my eyes is people who feel the need to offer their help when it's not asked for.

I don't agree. In the scenario described by the OP, the guy absolutely needed help. It's not fair to the rest of the squad to have that one guy stagger through a round. Further, in my experience, beginners usually welcome someone to approach them as Rastoff described. I am not a trap shooter, being mainly a skeet shooter. Anyway, many times I've noticed new people that I think are going to struggle through a round. Not once have I been rebuffed when I've asked them if they'd like me to open another field, pull for them and walk them through a round or two.


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 Post subject: Re: An etiquette Question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:00 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 221
Maser wrote:
I'd leave the guy alone unless he directly asked for help. One of the most hated things about public ranges in my eyes is people who feel the need to offer their help when it's not asked for.


One approach that is usually effective (but not always) is to start with a friendly conversation about anything other than the round he was just shooting. Then follow the flow and if it seems appropriate, you can lead up to "that's a nice gun, is that the new ACME 402987 Deluxe Sport Model?? and so forth.

Then if he starts talking about the difficulties, you can diplomatically ease into the advice. Otherwise, forget it until the next time you see him in the same situation and maybe try again.




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