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 Post subject: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:31 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:00 am
Posts: 25
Hey guys shot some 16yard practice tonight ,but I had another box of shells to burn so I tried some practice from 27yds I know it’s not practical but we sometimes shoot slider protections and end up back there for a shoot off. The temperature was right around 30 degrees outside and I was shooting 7 1/2s 11/16th ounce factory Winchester super x . Here’s where I think I’m crazy I swear on a few on thectargets I missed I could hear the shot hitting the clay target , almost like shot hit it but wouldn’t break it could this be ?




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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:14 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2162
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
Image

I would say so, but you could also just be hearing the echo of your gun off the trap house, especially on station 3.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:17 am 
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Go to the patterning board, and see what your pattern looks like at 40-50 yards. That's what they call a magic BB, if you can break a target at 50 yards with a 410.

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Mark (oregunner) See the bird, shoot the bird!


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:59 am
Posts: 110
Location: arizona
I'd save the .410 shells for shooting dove! Throw rocks from the 27 might be cheaper.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:40 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 125
colder targets get tougher to break.
if you hit them with not enough energy you can hear the shot sometimes make a tinkle sound as it hits the bird.

around here many of us have winter time and summer time loads.
I switch to 7-1/2's, and bump the powder a touch for the winter.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:11 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2162
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
fiver wrote:
colder targets get tougher to break.
if you hit them with not enough energy you can hear the shot sometimes make a tinkle sound as it hits the bird.

around here many of us have winter time and summer time loads.
I switch to 7-1/2's, and bump the powder a touch for the winter.


Do you have White Flyer Bio Bird loads?
It's also possible that the denser air in winter slows down the shot more. If you shoot in Colorado, you can pretty much go to one size smaller shot because of the low air density, or so the people who have shot there tell me.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:00 am
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Yea I’m thinking it’s a combination of it being colder and not having then energy to break a lot of em n that was part of the reason I heard shot hit the target and it didn’t break


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:00 am
Posts: 25
Yea I’m thinking it’s a combination of it being colder and not having then energy to break a lot of em n that was part of the reason I heard shot hit the target and it didn’t break


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:09 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2162
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
According to my ballistics charts, #8 shot with a muzzle velocity of 1255 fps is only going 880 fps at 20 yards, 675 fps at 40 yards, and 555 fps at 60 yards. I imagine the velocity decay is even worse when the air is cold and dense.

Number 7.5 shot with the same initial muzzle velocity is going 930, 715, and 580 fps at 20, 40, and 60 yards. Combined with the extra remaining velocity is more pellet mass which means a single pellet has a much better chance of breaking a bird at the long yardages.

While this is anectdotal evidence, my hdcp trap scores took a sudden jump upwards when I switched from #8 to #7.5 shot.
That bird I recovered and posted a photo of in this thread made me realize that yes, you can run out of pellet energy at the longer yards, or else everybody would shoot trap with #9 shot for the denser pattern.
I have talked to some shooters from northern Colorado where some shooters actually do use #9 for trap because the thinner air at high altitude does not steal as much energy from the pellets as they fly to the target. Cars get amazing gas mileage at high altitudes for the same reason.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:29 am
Posts: 27
B.L.E. wrote:
According to my ballistics charts, #8 shot with a muzzle velocity of 1255 fps is only going 880 fps at 20 yards, 675 fps at 40 yards, and 555 fps at 60 yards. I imagine the velocity decay is even worse when the air is cold and dense.

Number 7.5 shot with the same initial muzzle velocity is going 930, 715, and 580 fps at 20, 40, and 60 yards. Combined with the extra remaining velocity is more pellet mass which means a single pellet has a much better chance of breaking a bird at the long yardages.

While this is anectdotal evidence, my hdcp trap scores took a sudden jump upwards when I switched from #8 to #7.5 shot.
That bird I recovered and posted a photo of in this thread made me realize that yes, you can run out of pellet energy at the longer yards, or else everybody would shoot trap with #9 shot for the denser pattern.
I have talked to some shooters from northern Colorado where some shooters actually do use #9 for trap because the thinner air at high altitude does not steal as much energy from the pellets as they fly to the target. Cars get amazing gas mileage at high altitudes for the same reason.


BLE: If you don't mind my asking, what is your yardage? I'm a short yardage shooter (21) and I wonder if maybe in the cold or wind I should be shooting 7 1/2.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:12 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 125
maybe this odd tidbit will help on the bio birds.
back in the old day's the birds weren't as thin or of the same quality, and consequently quite often they were harder to break.
many of the shooters would switch to #6 and a softer chilled shot.
we can't do that now but trying a chilled 7-1/2 [heavier pellet weight] might help.

our altitude here is right close to 6,000' and in the summer when it is warm [okay like 75] 8-1/2 will easily break 16yd. targets a mix of 8 and 8-1/2 will work at 20-21 yds. no problems, and even slow moving [1125] 8 shot will run the table from 27.

the targets don't seem to loft and float like I have seen in lower altitudes they take a straighter trajectory then fall to the ground at the end of their flight.

in the winter if there is some humidity in the air and it's cold the air just freezes and ice pellets float around.
I guess cold is relative but we shoot year around, zero plus or minus a little is about my limit depending on the wind.[and whether I remembered the under armor]
I maintain a pretty decent weekly [year around] average of 95-97 [between the 16 and the 27]
I switch for the winter, the guy's that don't make a lot of dusty not broken targets in the cold.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:13 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2162
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
bigbluedodge wrote:
B.L.E. wrote:
According to my ballistics charts, #8 shot with a muzzle velocity of 1255 fps is only going 880 fps at 20 yards, 675 fps at 40 yards, and 555 fps at 60 yards. I imagine the velocity decay is even worse when the air is cold and dense.

Number 7.5 shot with the same initial muzzle velocity is going 930, 715, and 580 fps at 20, 40, and 60 yards. Combined with the extra remaining velocity is more pellet mass which means a single pellet has a much better chance of breaking a bird at the long yardages.

While this is anectdotal evidence, my hdcp trap scores took a sudden jump upwards when I switched from #8 to #7.5 shot.
That bird I recovered and posted a photo of in this thread made me realize that yes, you can run out of pellet energy at the longer yards, or else everybody would shoot trap with #9 shot for the denser pattern.
I have talked to some shooters from northern Colorado where some shooters actually do use #9 for trap because the thinner air at high altitude does not steal as much energy from the pellets as they fly to the target. Cars get amazing gas mileage at high altitudes for the same reason.


BLE: If you don't mind my asking, what is your yardage? I'm a short yardage shooter (21) and I wonder if maybe in the cold or wind I should be shooting 7 1/2.


I'm a short yardage shooter, I recently got bumped up from 19 to 19.5 by shooting a 96 in hdcp.
I also just shot my first 100 straight in singles, using the same ammo I use for hdcp. 1 1/8 ounce 7.5, 15.2 grains E3, W209 primers, CB 0118-12 wads in Gun Club hulls. I'm finally out of D class.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 6:57 pm
Posts: 2512
Nice shooting B.L.E. Congrats!


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 Post subject: Re: .410 from the 27 yard line something humor me am I crazy
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:27 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2162
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
Jim Tyner wrote:
Nice shooting B.L.E. Congrats!

Thanks Jim.
It's hard to describe the feeling on the last post knowing you still have five chances to blow it.
When I broke that last bird, I looked back at the scorekeeper, he smiled and gave me a big thumbs up.




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