Skeet_Man said:
"So Benelli/Beretta receivers are type III anodized? (They aren't.)
Beretta/Benelli barrel walls are >1/16" thickness, and less prone to muzzle damage? (They aren't.)
Benelli/Berettas are serviced "elsewhere"- vs. Stoeger? (They aren't)"
Not really sure what this is in reference to.
You reference Benelli/Beretta in comparison to Stoeger SAs. This was my answer. In short, while "durable", Benelli/Berettas are effete field guns. Triangle Shooting Sports, and several other shops make a fair bit of change turning them into serviceble high-volume guns (3 gun especially, sporting clays, etc to a lesser extent.)
My experience in getting parts for a Stoeger (o/u) was absolutely horrendous. You call Stoeger, and they direct you to call Mann and Sons out of IL. They are the ONLY source for stoeger parts in the united states, as told to me by Stoeger. Fine. Call them, call them again, call them again, at least 10-12 times. The phone just rings and rings. Try calling in the morning, afternoon, and evening, same result. They don't have a website, so there's no way to email them. I finally gave up and told my buddy (who I was trying to get the parts for) that I couldn't get them. He was a little more persistent than me, and FINALLY got ahold of them, only to be told they didn't have what he needed, but the parts were on the boat. 6 months later, after they arrived on the boat, cleared customs, ect, he had what he needed. Contrast that to Remington, where you call one of dozens of parts suppliers, tell them what you need, and you can have it the next day if you want to pay the freight.
I would really hate to be in the middle of a hunting season, break some insignificant part, then have to spend 20 hours on a phone and wait 6 months to have my gun back up and running again.
The meat of your position. The OUs
are not Beretta Holdings guns, and as Dave indicates, that is an apples/oranges comparison.
You can find used 1187s and 1100s all day long for sub-$500 that don't need any parts, and won't for a long time. And if they do, the great thing is you can almost completely rebuilt a Remington gas gun for $50 to $75 worth of parts.
That is called performance bias. "It worked for me yesterday; it will work for me today..." It is evidentiary when one is able to evaluate both the strenths and weaknesses of a particular tool, be it Chevy/Ford, or Remmy/Stoeger. Looking at Brownells factory parts pages, it is very comparable to rebuild 100/11-87s and the M2000 for the sub-$100 range, depending on whether you need FP, extractor, shell latches, etc..
What you have told me is that you have (by inference)20-30-odd years of experience with Remington and you feel comfortable with them. You/your friend had an abyssmal experience with the Stoeger name, and it has diminished your ability to objectively examine their products, regardless of tangible manufacturing differences. Again, i'm not knocking you, but please be honest in your position.
"If one compares the Express to the Wingmaster (wich is the same as the M2000 to the 300 series) the quality is not different, but the level of finish detail is."
Not even close. The M2000 is a COMPLETELY different gun than any of the 39x series of Berettas).
Well, yes, again the 300s are gas guns, not inertials. To fully validate my statement, I will say
the Benelli M1 and M2000 differ in level of finish, but not quality. :wink:
BUT. The primary difference between the 300s and the M2000/M1/M2 is the ported barrel and bolt linkage. The receivers, trigger groups, latches, and the barrels (barring the reinforced ring at the ports)
are the same.
In short, if an opinion has basis in fact, and can be substantiated, then by all means, it is worth sharing. Equally, I am not a Hi-Point fan. Wouldn't own one. I've worked on them and gagged. I do have to confess, they are fairly durable guns for what is paid, much as I hate to say it. I
don't go to the Hi-Point forum and poop on their livingroom floor, as it were, because, aside from the hardcore fan-boys, most of the owners are pretty realistic about what they have.