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 Post subject: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:24 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:21 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Decatur, AL
Hey,
I am interested in removing the poly-choke from my old Browning high-back. I wish I knew the model but it espapes me right now. It was made in Belgium I do know that. I don't really care for the look of the poly-choke. I prefer screw-in chokes.
I am sure that I can get it removed but does everyone recommend it? I was hoping there is a gunsmith here close to Decatur I could go to. Any thoughts and suggestions are welcome as I am not into the shotgunning world as much as I would like to be!
TIA!

EDIT: After looking at several pictures, I have determined it to be an A-5. Don't know the age but it is a reliable gun for sure!


Last edited by wareagle99 on Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 1643
Location: Arizona
They're usually silversoldered on IIRC :?

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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:34 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:21 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Decatur, AL
Eeek I tried taking the screw out and realized it wasn't as easy of a removal as I was hoping for. I think the barrel will still have sufficient length if I get it cut off. But I am not exactly as to the method most use. I am reading old forum posts right now.


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:58 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:35 pm
Posts: 1118
Just send it to the gunsmith with the length you want the barrel with the screw-ins. IMHO, you will miss the Poly a lot more than you think you will.

You will regret taking it off if you've used this gun much. The looks of the Poly make up for the aggravation of messing with screw-ins.

If you are determined to do away with it, email kirbythegunsmith@hotmail.com for his prices. He is one of our member gunsmiths.

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Brad

We don't need more laws; we need more common sense!


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:35 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:21 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Decatur, AL
Well the only reason I am considering doing this is because i have an old Remington 1100 with a polychoke. I also have a JC Higgins with one as well. So, I have plenty of guns with poly-chokes :) I do like the ability to change the choke on the fly. Just this particular gun I want a screw-in choke.


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:35 pm
Posts: 1118
kirbythegunsmith@hotmail.com
He can answer your questions and if you like, install the chokes, quote you a price, etc.

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Brad

We don't need more laws; we need more common sense!


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:56 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Arkansas
Leave the poly on. I think you would be much happier finding an invector barrel for your gun and keeping the original. A few years ago I had the 30" barrel on my magnum shortend and threaded for chokes. Even though the barrel was pitted some on the inside I still regret not keeping the original barrel intact and finding an invector barrel to hunt with. Im looking for a Mag barrel now and could have had the orignal left uncut. Now I will have the money in the new barrel plus the money I spent to have it cut and threaded.


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:21 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:14 pm
Posts: 506
Location: Fl.
DONT DO IT, buy another barrel. I love polys, they work well.

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Do what is best, no matter the opposition.


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:20 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:33 pm
Posts: 149
Poly Chokes are screwed on the barrel. To remove you might as well just cut it off right behind the choke body as you won't gain more than a small fraction of an inch by unscrewing it.
As others have said, try to get past the looks and use it. It is much more convenient than screw-in's, plus steel shot won't make it bulge.

RWO


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:05 am 
ID & Value Expert
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I bought a Poly-Choke II that screws into my Browning A5 Invector barrel so that I don't have to mess with all of those little chokes. It shoots beautiful patterns with lead, steel, bismuth and Hevishot. It shoots slugs very well, too.

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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:38 am 
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A5guy, you made a wise decision. Those choke tubes are disgusting to fool with. Plus, during turkey seasion, you can unscrew the Poly II and screw in your turkey choke for the season. That is the only screw-in that I use. Otherwise, the Poly II rides on the muzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:27 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:00 am
Posts: 1009
Quote:
Poly Chokes are screwed on the barrel.


Many, many Polys have been sawed off. I have removed the barrel stubs from quite a few as several (as mentioned in this thread really like them..) Early on Polys are dimentionally different on the adjustment sleeve as well as thread configuration. Most Polys I have seen are threaded to the barrel, mostly with external barrel threads, but I've seen 20 ga. Polys that threaded in internally to the barrel...

Quote:
They're usually silversoldered on IIRC


I've run onto some of these too. Seems less common.....

The Poly-Choke is really a handy device. Once.. (for an old guy like me) it was extremely popular and everyone seems to want one! We have gone full circle over the last half-century or so with most shotgunners now hating them!

Leave it on......They work just fine, and are indeed handier than anything else for a rapid choke selection....

Cut it off and re-choke with tubes...... With substancial barrel length left this works great too!

The choice has to be yours.....

Slidehammer


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:29 pm 
Gunsmith
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:40 am
Posts: 907
Location: St. Louis area
Polychokes came in 2 varieties, and that is where the collar thread variance shows. These both came in standard and vented versions, also.

(Removal of any Poly to gain the small amount of the barrel under the collet is going to leave a section that is either threaded or turned down for brazing, and won't look like or be the same size as the rest of the barrel. Cut it even with the back of the Poly for a re-crown is the proper method that I use.)

The first type is called the "Single-Turn" and only tightens to full choke. The collar has straight lines instead of knurling, like the "Deluxe", which has the ability to rotate to Extra-full, whether or not it was fitted to allow so much actual constriction.

There are other differences, but those details are not essential for this discussion.

Dismounting and re-using a collet section of a Poly is a cheapo alternative to doing a proper job. The collets must be fitted to the bore of the specific barrel, and unless the re-used collet is going on a barrel with a larger bore (and can be fitted to the larger size) then the expected bore match is not present.
The external collars may be used on a different (but matching version) choke collet, but unless used during the fitting process, the choke marks on the collar may not coincide with the expected amount of constriction that would be normal for a properly fitted Poly.

Polychoke mounting versions are by threading, solder/braze, or both, in some cases. Soft solder can be used to stop a threaded collet from turning on the barrel during or after installation, but Loctite can do that, also, with some cure time.
A non-threaded install is better done with silver braze or silver-bearing soft solder, at least.

There are multiple sizes of threaded and braze versions to allow fitting to a range of barrel diameters. I have plenty of new units and replacement collars of both kinds and plain/vent versions in stock.

-------------------

Did you see the newest article at my website, Article 4?
See the link on the home page for "article selection", then click on article 4.
Polychoke damage condition pictured along with steel shot pounding of 2 choke tubes. More tube damage pictured was caused by an offset choke installation.

If you haven't seen the barrel ready to explode on the next shot, see article 3, also.

kirbythegunsmith@hotmail.com

_________________
Gunsmithing website:
http://theshotgunshop.net
Articles on every page.
Article 3 pictures improper or dangerous choke installations, article 1 has explanatory illustrations, and article 2 has info. about bore/forcing cone improvements/limitations.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:20 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:00 am
Posts: 1009
kirbythegunsmith wrote:
Dismounting and re-using a collet section of a Poly is a cheapo alternative to doing a proper job. The collets must be fitted to the bore of the specific barrel, and unless the re-used collet is going on a barrel with a larger bore (and can be fitted to the larger size) then the expected bore match is not present.


Of course you can't take a used Poly, thread another barrel, screw on the used Poly and expect everything to be right, but to say it can't be a proper job is wrong. Internal dimensions need to be taken on the used unit first, to see if enough "meat" is available to cleanup concentric and sized to the new bore.. The very worst problem I see is Polys that have been originally put on eccentric! Some even with installers stamps on them. Even a simple minded machinist should know you don't line up your barrel before threading by using the O.D. of the barrel! So a lot of removed Polys are ruined because the bore hole is eccentric through the collet and will not clean up when installed concentric regardless of its I.D.! I've seen the collet bore .010" eccentric to the collet O.D. before!
But a concentric used collet say .728" bore fitted correctly and concentric to say a .732" bore (as you mentioned above) can yield an excellent and correctly done job! Actually it takes a better machine man to put on a used one correctly than a new one. Not only the internal dimensions with correct concentricity, but even cutting your thread and shoulder to match up bottomed out and tight with the existing bead hole in the collet lined up straight is a challenge the first so-called machinist on so many I've seen didn't have to face!

Please don't take any of my comments directed at your work! I am certainly not saying anything like that. I only take exception to your comment I highlight bold above.
Bottom line is a used unit can be a proper job when properly done.

Slidehammer


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:06 am 
Gunsmith
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:40 am
Posts: 907
Location: St. Louis area
Perhaps I mis-spoke, saying that re-using a used Poly wouldn't be doing a proper job.
I do mean that any shop trying to keep the bills paid can't afford the time spent to make an occasional use of a used collet, since a proper job should have the best fitting size of threads or braze sleeve diameter. If the only choice that you have in a used part is with a small diameter thread, and the barrel with an opportune bore size that can be fit with this used part has enough material to warrant a large sized thread, my luck is that I would consider them as incompatible and in need of excess and unwarranted removal of material from the barrel exterior to fit that part. A new collet would not have these problems, if size choice was available.

If you have more free time, charge the shooter less, do a lot of set-up work to ensure that the used part is (in fact) re-workable, not have any tiny defects like I pictured in article 4, have cleaned the original threads thoroughly and see that they are relatively true and usable, have no excess wear on the external surfaces and threads of the collet, verify that none of the fingers has been distorted (since sometimes the wall thickness varies around the collet, and can have one finger thinner than the others as a normal production variance), mount the part in line and indexed with the bead upright TDC (as you perfectly realize), and then match the collet interior to the bore as per Poly instructions and in-line, everything will be presentable as long as the collar has not bulged from years of pounding. The outer sleeve can be pounded and get loose on the threads without the collet showing severe damage signs. I had one that would skip a thread when it got near bottomed out and tight, again and again.

Realize that a new part can have some runout from inside/outside at the thread end, and that area is never cut out during an installation, only the fingers. I just picked a random new unfitted Poly, a 16 ga., by chance. It had .005" variance in the finger thickness, brand new. Measured the barrel thread end on a 20. ga, had .004" variance around the wall.

Holding the exterior and boring the choke size into the collet before installing on the barrel will not be as accurate as line boring the interior when the collet is affixed to the barrel, the proper Poly install way. Also, don't use the exterior of the collet fingers as an alignment and runout check. A wall variance may skew the indicator results, but not be meaningful if you align the boring work to that surface, but the barrel mounting threads (in their own little run-out condition vs. the outer section of the rear of the collet) will now be at a slight tilting compared to the new collet opening, so everything can be a bit discombobulated at that point.

Of course, a proper job is limited by the accuracy of the factory made parts, so if you get yours to run within .003" or so, it's not a disaster, just like sizing to the exact bore size is a theoretical ideal, but within .002 was considered acceptable.

The most important part is making the mounting section concentric to the bore, not the exterior of the barrel, as you already know, anyway.

Have you seen the choke fitting disaster that I posted in the photo "misc." section long ago? How about the damaged choke tubes in the "Mossberg" section of the photo gallery? They have more views, but I consider them less interesting (as well as not so astonishing) as the complete goof-up done to a 10 ga. barrel. See for yourself.

Real problem:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410 ... =21&pos=94

Choke tubes need help, but can be improved:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410 ... m=9&pos=30
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410 ... m=9&pos=31

Naturally, don't take these comments as criticism, just as advice. If you need some replacement or optimized sized parts, let me know. I'll make you a deal. Fair enough?

kirbythegunsmith@hotmail.com

What do you think of my analysis?
Have you perused through my previous postings?
Did you see my stuff over at
www.thehighroad.org (about 130) or
www.thefiringline.com (about 30)

Any comments, criticisms, suggestions, rants, kudos, condemnations, speak up.

By the way, I was wondering about "slidehammer" as a pseudonym.
Reminds me of a dentist named "Dr. Yankem" or a physician named "Dr. Gash".

_________________
Gunsmithing website:
http://theshotgunshop.net
Articles on every page.
Article 3 pictures improper or dangerous choke installations, article 1 has explanatory illustrations, and article 2 has info. about bore/forcing cone improvements/limitations.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:38 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:00 am
Posts: 1009
kirbythegunsmith wrote:
Any comments, criticisms, suggestions, rants, kudos, condemnations, speak up.


Actually some praise... You are indeed a generous sort of guy to share your expertise as you do. Most in the business for $$ tend to be tight lipped it seems, particularly when specialty work is involved.
As one versed in machine work, one paragraph stands out to me as your signature of quality... This paragraph:

"Holding the exterior and boring the choke size into the collet before installing on the barrel will not be as accurate as line boring the interior when the collet is affixed to the barrel, the proper Poly install way."

Your terminology underlined speaks on your behalf... To work on the collet first and then expect no longitudinal runout is tossing the dice! And longitudinal runout has your gun shooting somewhere other than where you look as you well know!

kirbythegunsmith wrote:
By the way, I was wondering about "slidehammer" as a pseudonym.
Reminds me of a dentist named "Dr. Yankem" or a physician named "Dr. Gash".


This nickname had it's conception a half century ago. Those that know me, know exactly the meaning.... Those that don't sometimes guess... Starting back then as a choice, it became an expertise.. My "hammer" doesn't pound nails.... My "slide" doesn't slip......"Slidehammer" is not the tool to impact remove bearings or internal parts as many believe....
You'll have to think deeper than the Doctor's names; their skill will have you on the right track....

Slidehammer


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:42 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:41 pm
Posts: 944
Location: Vancouver Island
PolyChoke removal? Yes or No. That's up to you it's your decision. Some folks like them and others don't. I'm one of the others.

As a young boy I bought a used Model 50 that came with a PolyChoke. I never cared for that P/C one bit, it was a distraction. Picked up a used M12 and never looked back. The Model 50, with the PolyChoke, no problem I fixed it real good when I bought an unmolested barrel at a gun show. Slipped that barrel on and life was good. I now had a two barrel set: a 30" F/C and a 26" cyl. My hacksaw fixed that PolyChoke real good and in thick brush that 26" cyl barrel works just fine.

But that's my story, the PolyChoke on the end of your barrel is your decision. -- :?: -- :)

Regards:
Rod


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:58 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:51 pm
Posts: 35
Location: South Alabama
War-eagle-- the Colonial Arms shop is down in Bay Minette, now. They have a display showing all kinds of blow ups and barrel threads-- and nice people to talk to--charge $75 to cut and thread-- tubes are about $12 to $25... I've neve asked about re-installing a sight, but I know they have bead block type sights like the original Browing. it's on US31 south of Bay Minette..the Browning Belgium barrels are usually .723 to .725 internally and around .830 or so outside so they usually require Colonial thin wall tubes...

Tel: 251-580-5000 • Fax: 251-580-5006 • 1-800-949-8088
1504 Highway 31 • PO Box 250 • Bay Minette, AL 36507
www.colonialarms.com


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 Post subject: re: Poly-choke removal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:22 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 71
I have an A5 light 12. The poly choke shot off like a howixer in a dove field. The best thing that ever happened. It has been a sweet shooting gun ener since (35+ years) . Just added a sight bead. Do what ever is required to rid yourself of the dog something on the end of your barrel. You will be glad you did. I was.


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