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 Post subject: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:25 pm
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Location: toronto ont
New to shotgunning and trying to learn by reading. I have the chance to buy a Win 1200 full choke 30" barrel for trap and hunting. Is that the same as a model 12?


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 Post subject: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:05 pm
Posts: 1787
Location: Kerrville TX
NO,NO,NO.....The Model 12 was a true product of the machinists art, the 1200 was a poor attempt to trade off of the Mod. 12 name. The 1200 was an OK gun but only a poor copy of the Mod.12.....Jack

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 Post subject: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm
Posts: 2214
Location: Nova Scotia,Canada
The Winchester Model 12 and 1200 are as different as night and day.The Model 12 was one of the best shotguns ever produced .The Model 1200 at best, in my opinion could only be rated as poor to fair.


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 Post subject: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:25 pm
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Location: toronto ont
For trap and possibly deer. It is a 12ga 30" ribbed barrel ,fixed full choke, sling and soft cover for $200. Looks in good condition. Is that a decent price?


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 Post subject: Re: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 913
Location: Maine
alaus24 wrote:
For trap and possibly deer. It is a 12ga 30" ribbed barrel ,fixed full choke, sling and soft cover for $200. Looks in good condition. Is that a decent price?


Yes, it's a reasonable price unless it's pretty beat. For trap it will work fine. Eventually, you may want something more dedicated. I'm not sure what you have in mind with respect to deer hunting. I don't think I'd fire slugs through a full choke, but I know some folks do this. Buckshot will work, but they pattern best through modified. A 30" vented barrel makes for a not so nimble deer gun. Your call. You might be able to pick up a slug barrel on one of the auction sites. You won't have to have a gunsmith fit it to your receiver..........

I kinda understand the M-12 snobbery. I have a safe full of M-12s. Yes, they are "better" in many respects. Their workmanship, design, and handling qualities are superb. They are also, apples to apples, alot pricier than 1200s.

1200/1300s are the sleepers of the pumpgun world, IMHO. The best wingshooter I've ever known uses a rifle sighted slug 1300 XTR for all upland birds. Looks odd, but he has averaged well over 70% shots fired/birds in bag over decades. And no, he doesn't hesitate to take longish shots. He has never cleaned his 1300, BTW. It lives in his truck (third truck, same gun), barrel now orange encrusted with rust externally. It works - is broken in I'd say. Most guns will not stand for that sort of treatment. I suppose a M-12 would manage, but I'm not chump enough to try it with any of mine. Most Model 12 proponents would not try it either, though I'd bet many oldtimers did so.

Sam


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 Post subject: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Location: toronto ont
Thanks Samuel, the gun seems to be in good to better condition and I felt comfortable shooting it. I would think 99.99% of my shooting will be trap. If I get into deer it is on farmed land so I would imagine buckshot would be better than slugs. I've been told 30-40 yds is the norm. I don't have the where with all to buy dedicated guns (2 kids/ one income) so I will have to make the compromises. I liked the safety on the front of the trigger guard. I am a south paw and I shot an ithica featherweight for trap and the safety was behind the trigger guard and 4 times as I went to pull the trigger I put the safety on!!!


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 Post subject: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 913
Location: Maine
You'll hear arguments for and against the safety at front of trigger guard. I happen to like it there, too. But I suppose that's because I'm so used to it. Ithacas and 870s are good guns, too.

I don't know enough about 1200s to know if you can reverse the direction of operation of a safety as with M-12s. Maybe someone who knows will chime in.

Sam


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 Post subject: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:44 pm 
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Location: Maine
Williams made a LH safety for the 1200/1400; I just found one in my desk drawer.


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 Post subject: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:41 pm
Posts: 943
Location: Vancouver Island
The Model 1200 did not gain my interest. . . Holding a Model 12 in one hand and looking at a Model 1200 in the other hand . . .well, it was real tough to get excited about "Winchester's New Design Team" and what they did to the new Winchester's line-up of Firearms. Not sure if it was the tinny sound the 1200 made locking up or the obivious lack of hands on quality I expected from a Winchester Shotgun. Don't know, but the 1200 brought down plenty of targets nevertheless.

The Model 1200 has gone the distance so it deserves recognition. It gets the job done cheaper.. In otherwords; it was researched and designed to do the job with a design that allowed for a lower quality of materials and hands on workmanship and this put Winchester in a better position to compete with the Remington 870. It's odd that Shooters excepted Remington's "stamp and press" manufacturing, but would not embrace Winchester's move to utilize manufacturing technology learned during WW II .

Even if they could have doubled the price of the Model 12, at that time, and the purchasers would have paid the higher price; Winchester still would have been in a losing situation. They tried it with the Custon Shop and that only lasted a few years.

Anyways . . if you like the 1200 and it's in good condition it'll most likely make you a nice shotgun . . :)

Regards:
Rod


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 Post subject: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 5
Location: N.AL
I collect many guns that are known to be the best for cardshooting. The model 1200 is by far the best gun for the money. I have many model 12's,30", and 32" barrels,many model 1200's,win 37's,1400's,1897's and many others. My best gun is a model 1200 and I will shoot against any gun around for high stakes. You can buy 10 model 1200 with 30" barrel's,full choke and 8 will shoot good. Yes, the model 12 is in a class of its own but when it comes to shooting there's not that much difference in a good model 12 and a good 1200 except for saving 500.00. I can't speak for the trap models except in the rem.


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 Post subject: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:17 am
Posts: 1137
Location: Maine
I thought cardshooting guns had custom barrels, or is there a category for unaltered guns?


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 Post subject: re: model 12 vs 1200
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 121
Location: Norman Oklahoma
What exactly is card shooting?

Bob


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