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870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?

9K views 34 replies 10 participants last post by  snaponallstar 
#1 ·
What's the difference?

Does it require the Magnum to use 3" shells? (It looks like the barrel takes 2 3/4" and 3" shells on two guns I'm looking at but does it take the Magnum receiver to handle 3" shells?)

Can you tell me about how much an 870 Express Magnum in a 20 gauge weighs?

How many shells will it hold?

Thanks,
Dan
 
#3 ·
pgmrdan said:
What's the difference?

Does it require the Magnum to use 3" shells? (It looks like the barrel takes 2 3/4" and 3" shells on two guns I'm looking at but does it take the Magnum receiver to handle 3" shells? YES !)

Can you tell me about how much an 870 Express Magnum in a 20 gauge weighs? Depends on the barrell length, take a look at the web link.

How many shells will it hold? 4 + 1 (2 3/4")

Thanks,
Dan
This should help too,

http://www.remington.com/products/firea ... xpress.asp
 
#6 ·
There do seem to be far too many reports of jamming 870's.

As a percentage of guns sold, I'm not sure how significant the problem is.

In most cases the culprit seems to be a rough chamber. When shooting cheap shells with very thin steel "brass" the shell head expands into the rough walls of the chamber and causes them to stick together.
 
#7 ·
erik meade said:
They are the same.

All 20 ga Express 870's are "Magnum" receivers whether it says so on the receiver or not. 3" shells are fine in any of them.

All the 12ga Express 870's are either "Magnum" or "Super Magnum" and so again 3" shells are fine.

http://remington.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/r ... _faqid=162
True, as long as we are talking about newer 870's, right? (after 1979?)

Guess I was thinking the pgmrdan might be talking about used guns.

Can't go wrong with using the serial number info :wink:
 
#8 ·
erik meade said:
There do seem to be far too many reports of jamming 870's.

As a percentage of guns sold, I'm not sure how significant the problem is.

In most cases the culprit seems to be a rough chamber. When shooting cheap shells with very thin steel "brass" the shell head expands into the rough walls of the chamber and causes them to stick together.
I have never had any problems with my 870's using the barrels that came with the guns from the factory.

However I have had a problem with an extra Remington barrel I bought new.

Any shells with high brass will get stuck in the chamber. I polished it over and over, yet I can only get it to shuck low brass shells. Still working on it...
 
#11 ·
Dan,

You have to do what you are comfortable with. FWIW I think that it is a shame that you will miss out on owning an example of the greatest shotgun ever mass produced...

I have bought only two new Express models in my life (bought dozens of Wingmasters) I didn't have a problem with either of them.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another over any reliability concerns...

Any new gun can have problems, the 870 has earned a reputation as one of the most reliable guns available. They wouldn't have sold 10 million of them (best selling shotgun in history) if they had "issues". I think that the recent concern over jams needs to be placed against that backdrop. It is particularly noteworthy because it is so surprising... Given the ridiculously large number of guns they sell, I don't think the risk is too great that you would have a problem.

I am not saying Remington should be held to account for letting these jamming guns out the door, but they shouldn't be thrown under the bus either.

If having to send a gun in for repair is too much of a stressor for you, I would recommend buying a used Wingmaster from someone you know...

Just my 2 cents.

Of course are other good guns out there if the 870 doesn't seem right for you. If having no problems is your main concern I would shy away from some of the lower priced imports.
 
#12 ·
All new 870 express guns are Magnums. Some of the early 870 Express guns (20+ years ago) were available in either std or mag.

I owned a 2003 Express, a 2004 Wingmaster, and a total of 7 new Remington produced between 2003-2007. I have been very pleased with each gun, and I have no issues with Remington's quality control. Since their introduction in 1950, over 9,000,000 (!) Model 870s have been produced - so clearly no, life is NOT too short to own a 870.
 
#13 ·
Thanks guys! I was hoping my last post would prompt someone to contradict my statement. Although I don't like the finish on the metal I really like the 870.

According to Jack O'Connor they were introduced in 1948 so they've been produced for 60 years now. O'Connor wrote about how the 870 had been simplified for mass production and is the smoothest, most reliable pump shotgun ever made. (This was from a book he wrote in the '60's so don't shoot the messenger - me!)

I've been shouldering a lot of guns at the chain store gun shop the past 3+ weeks. Everything from a Stevens 94C (break-open single shot, 28" barrel) in 16 gauge, a NEF H&R Pardner (Yuk!), to a very nice, new Beretta double gun, a new Ruger Red Label, and a bunch of new Browning Citori's and BPS's. Nothing fits me better than the $2,000 Beretta and the $250 Remington 870. I'm not buying the Beretta (but I did buy the Stevens for a fun gun).

I would very much like to feel comfortable about buying an 870. The store where I buy gives you 30 days to return a gun for a full refund, no questions asked, so I suppose I should take the leap and if I get a bad one exchange it until I get a good one.
 
#14 ·
You won't get a bad one, but if the store has such a policy then it seems like there is no worry. When you buy the gun buy those cheap shells that come in the 100 round value packs with the crappy thin metal heads. You should know right away if you are going to have any problems...

FWIW the 870 came out in 1950
 
#15 ·
erik meade said:
You won't get a bad one, but if the store has such a policy then it seems like there is no worry. When you buy the gun buy those cheap shells that come in the 100 round value packs with the crappy thin metal heads. You should know right away if you are going to have any problems...

FWIW the 870 came out in 1950
I have to disagree a little with that statement about crappy shells.

If you are going to have an out of the box problem with the barrel chamber, I don't think it will matter much which shells you try.

For me the problem is in the deeper part of the chamber, causing the high and medium brass shell collars to get stuck.
The ultra short based "promo pack" Remingtons work OK...now.

I would feed it a variety of high to low at first just to make sure.
 
#17 ·
WinM12 said:
All new 870 express guns are Magnums. Some of the early 870 Express guns (20+ years ago) were available in either std or mag.
I learn something new all the time. The Express didn't come out until 1987, I had thought that they were pretty much done making the 2 3/4" receivers several years before then? Of course I was 16 at the time and probably was paying more attention to other things than the Remington catalog... :lol:
 
#21 ·
I've been shooting 870s since Ike was Prez. The recent stuff about jamming seems to come down to the following.....

First, the preservatives on the metal needs to be removed before use. Follow the instructions in the manual before shooting.

Second, some cheap shells seem to cause jams. This is mitigated by polishing the chamber. A common method, use 4/0 steel wool on a brush or dowel chucked in a variable speed drill. Go slow and reverse directions. At worst, one can use other ammo.

This isn't restricted to new Expresses. A very nice WM here made in 1955 has trouble with Gun Clubs. It eats other shells all day long.

Third, some of the folks sniveling loudest about Remington's QC or lack of same are, pardon the expression, idiots.

Pumps are designed to be racked hard. If someone babies the stroke, some pumps, not limited to 870s, will hang up or not load a fresh shell into the chamber.

Rack it like you mean it.
 
#22 ·
Also you need to use a variety of shells to see how you hold up. An 870 is a great gun, and not that heavy. I like that about them, when hunting. Never noticed recoil once when hunting. But, way back in 1974, when I first started to reload shotgun shells, a quick trip from work over to the Izaak Walton League at lunch time, in 90 degree short sleeve shirt weather, to shoot some test patterns, with my very first maximum load 1-7/8 ounce #2 shot goose loads, is etched into my memory like my motorcycle wreck. I was 6'-2" and 205 pounds of muscle and it knocked me back a step like nothing since the Regional Golden Gloves Heavyweight champion ! Actually, he knocked me all the way out, but no need to dwell on that...
I was talking with a guy at the club who recently got a new Remmy the other day, and he opined as how he thinks part of the problem is the shells they are using to test the guns are leaving a plastic deposit in the chambers. He said he had some stickers, and he squirted some Kroil in the chamber and then ran a Brillo pad wrapped on a cleaning rod in a drill in and out of the chamber and got all kinds of crud out. So, if you experience a problem, check all the possibilities.
 
#23 ·
pgmrdan, did you buy the Express or something else? For a new shotgun that will cost you $230-$240 (or less) after rebates you can't go wrong. You are making way too much over the shell sticking issue. You probably won't even have an issue with it. Heck, in that gun class what else is there that is more dependable? Exactly, nothing. Being an owner of more than I need of WingMasters and a few Expresses I have yet to occur any real issues in 32 years of shooting them. I'm picking up the new 870 Express Super Mag Waterfowl Camo'd on Saturday and I have no doubt at all about its cycling, handling, future service of it. I take it that you are an inexperienced shotgunner????? Please correct me if I'm wrong because I don't want to talk down to you or insult you in anyway shape or form. I would bet if you bought the Express 20 gauge that you want to, stop asking about all the negatives (what very few their are), took it home and gave it a half *** first cleaning, than headed to the trap range and shoot 3 or 4 rounds of trap with it (100 shells) I'll bet a weeks pay you'll never have problem in the field with it. How are you planning on using the gun? Occasional hunter? Heck you may never fire 2 boxes of field shell through it in your lifetime of you're an occasional shooter. Seriously, I'm not trying to poke fun at you, I'm by no means any expert at anything, don't let that sticky shell thing interfere with your decision. You're letting an issue get the best of you and you don't even have a problem yet. It will be only a slight issue if you even have an issue at all. Good luck. Go buy it. The price is right and the deal is real, enjoy it.
 
#24 ·
Spankey,

Let me just say that I already own more than 1 shotgun and that I began shooting firearms more than a half-century ago. That should be enough said about that.

If you do a search on this forum for '870' and read through all of the posts about jamming I think you'll wonder about ever buying another 870. Again, that should be enough said about that.

After trying dozens of double barrel and pump shotguns the past several weeks (Ruger, Browning, Beretta, and other very nicely made guns) the 870 is my favorite because of the way it fits. Well, one Beretta fit me very nicely too and the wife approved the purchase when we talked about it but $2,000 is a bit much to pay for a gun just to scratch it up while I shoot squirrels, rabbits, and pheasants on the weekends, IMHO. All of those posts in the search results have been the only things stopping me from buying an 870.

I didn't write 'em. I just read 'em.

Hope that helps,
Dan
 
#25 ·
pgmrdan,

You are most definitely right. A smart consumer is a well informed consumer. I believe I've read that on a handfull of instances of shells possibly sticking. Didn't know or didn't realize there were that many threads about this issue. I'll take your word that there are that many.

You probably get a feeling that I'm pretty much a Remington kind of guy when it comes to their shotguns. You would be 100% correct when it comes to their field guns. Do I think they are the best shotguns in the full picture? No, I do not. For me personally the fit, years of reliability with them, personal success with them, someone would have to give me one heck of a deal on a shotgun to change me over to a different brand without looking to see what Remington had that was comparable.

There is a real vagueness to much of your post. This started out over a 20 ga. 870 Remington EXPRESS pump shotgun. As time goes on we've all posted 870...870... 870... 1950... the '60's....the 70's blah,blah blah. Your kicking in there about a $2000 Beretta of some type. An O/U I take, Beretta doesn't have any pumps and you could buy (2) Beretta autoloaders and hard cases and some shells for $2000. Let me get back to the 870. Model 870 WINGMASTER/ 870 EXPRESS, there is a difference. The Wingmaster is a classic. The Express is a cost effective way to market a good reliable gun to new and long time shotgunners. The Express is a $250 shotgun. Better than alot of other $250 shotguns out there. You don't like the finish, step up to a 870 Wingmaster. You mentioned that the 870 was a perfect fit. Seems like that might be the answer.

The Express is not a Wingmaster. Don't know how many on here will say it is. Probably some. The Express is no Browning Pump shotgun either. Doesn't look like you were looking a cheap O/U's either. There is (2) reasons why a person will buy an Express. Cheap reliability/like of the low luster finish. I admit I like both for certain situations.

I have a Beretta AL 391 Trap grade gun I use as a back up gun. The piston cracked around 2000 rounds through it. It happens, they replaced it under warranty. They have a history of this happening. It doesn't matter what you get something could happen. But, you'll probably not encounter any problems.
 
#26 ·
Thanks for the information Spankey!

I looked at the 870's again today. Yeah, I don't care for that rough finish on the metal but so what? I can live with it.

Wingmaster? Much nicer looking but I'd end up paying more for the good looks and the good looks wouldn't last long where I hunt. If you could see the way I get scratched up when rabbit hunting you'd know what I'm talking about. I'm like a bulldozer going through the brush and briars. I don't realize how badly I've been scratched up until I take off my hunting clothes.

The 870 Express is the right choice for me.

Like I said a few posts back, I can get one and if I have any problems with it they'll take it back and give me another within 30 days.
 
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