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 Post subject: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:22 pm
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Location: Nor Cal
Was in big 5 and they have a khan artemis 12 and 20 gauge on sale for $399. I've been looking for a 20 guage and wanted to know if those are decent guns???

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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:22 am 
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At the top of the page, do a search for Kahn (the search engine for this web site). You will find that they are junk. Sorry, but sometimes the truth is harsh and it hurts. I have looked at probably 1/2 dozen of these guns, and you couldnt give one to me for use as a boat oar. There was a gunsmith that posted on here about how terrible the mechanics are. Actually he posted more than once, I wouldnt know because there was NO way I was leaving the store with one of those "guns".

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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:22 pm
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Location: Nor Cal
thanks for the advice, I'll steer clear

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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:40 pm 
My friend had bought one of these guns, in 12g. He was hitting everything he shot at with the top barrel, and not hitting anything with the bottom.

After some investigation we found out that the barrels weren't lined up. The bottom barrel was actually crooked! He took it back to Dunhams, and they sent it in to the distributor and they sent him back a new gun.

But I would have rather gotten my money back. What junk.
Utahan


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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:09 pm
Posts: 971
Location: South Central Pa.
Hi:

My local dealer is selling these for $299.95. They look good from the outside fit and finish wise. I asked him if he had any complaints and he said no. They come with 4 chokes.

I would like to try one for myself just to see what one gets in a $299.95 O/U. Oh yes, the 20 ga. guns are selling like hotcakes! Not only the Kahn but any 20 ga. O/U!

Zeke


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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:09 pm
Posts: 971
Location: South Central Pa.
Hi:

My local dealer is selling these for $299.95. They look good from the outside fit and finish wise. I asked him if he had any complaints and he said no. They come with 4 chokes.

I would like to try one for myself just to see what one gets in a $299.95 O/U. Oh yes, the 20 ga. guns are selling like hotcakes! Not only the Kahn but any 20 ga. O/U!

Zeke


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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:31 pm 
I bought one for my son and I will tell you that they are not junk. It has functioned perfectly so far and if it makes it 5 or 6 years it will be worth the investment to get him started in hunting. It may not be a gun to last a lifetime but I think it is a good gun for the money. I have seen a number of folks here who have actually bought them who felt there was some value and the ones who felt they were junk, just handled them. Not much of a trial in my mind.

On the other hand I took deliver of a 28 gauge Khan from Century Arms and it was total crap, including scratches on the stock, and a under barrel that would not set the upper barrel. I think they have a quality control problem or Century was trying to pass off the rejects - they were on "special".


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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:44 pm 
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That was me above, forgot to sign in. I did do a search as suggested by Hoselayer and saw that one person seemd to have a vendetta against them, and guess who. Well we all have our own definition of an open mind. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:59 am 
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Custom, You must not have searched very far.......here are some others including the gunsmith :wink:

Dave A
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Khaan Shotguns

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I posted on this same question some time ago but will tell you how I feel about the Kahn again! Let me tell you a little bit about my self. I am 65 and was a machinest and a gunsmith for over 40 years. I have worked on many guns in my time and own Brownings o/u, SKB, o/u, Winchester o/u a Beretta sxs, a Lanber o/u and even a CZ o/u. My son-in-law has a Verona 502 and I have been in that. I have been in the new Lanbers and thought enough of them to buy one, And my best friends son bought a Kahn from Dunhams and wanted me to go through it for him before he started shooting it. Its to bad he had allready altered the stock or I would have told him to take it back. It is with out a dought the worst gun I have ever had the chance to work on. The top hammer was just barely hitting the top firing pin and this on a new gun yet!! Poor design in that the top firing pin does not angle down far enough to come under the hammer like it should. It wouldn't have taken to many rds. and the hammer would have been missing the firing pin all to gether. It took me over an hour to build up the hammer. The worst part is the parts that make up the trigger group. Ther isn't any two parts that look alike. They are all rough, and look like some one filed them out of some junk steel. Now maybe on another gun they would have not taken so much off the top of the hammer, I don't know. If you were to look inside of a Verona or even the Lanber and then look at the Kahn you would see what I mean. No comparison. By the way, the Lanber is a very well built gun for the money. More Lanbers are sold in the UK then any other , must be some reason beside price!! I'm sorrey, I just can't say any thing good about the Kahn. Oh, and yes I did refit the stock to the receiver, what a gap!! God Bless and have a good day.

GRO.......
MAP

I was looking at the gun in Big 5 and was about to buy one from them and when I went in to make my purchase they said they had to send them all back to the manufacturer and they were not sure why. They did tell me that they had one on layaway for an individual and if he did not claim it then I could buy it. Well I waited and waited and then they called me and said that the guy would be in to pick it up. I resigned myself to the fact that the gun was gone. I went to another dealer and bought a baikal SxS 410 for a good price and I am happy with it. Then about three days after I got the Baikal, Big 5 calls me and said that the guy backed out of the deal and if I wanted it I could have it. Well down to the store I went and bought it right then. I have been shooting both guns a lot and they are great. Funny how things work out sometimes. After I bought the Kahn I saw the sales person in Sportsmans wharehouse and he told me that they had to send the guns back because someone complained that both barrels fired at once. I told him that the gun was manufactured that way and its in the manual. Like you said MAP someone doesn't know how to read the manual.
GRO

javven..........
Well, I have handled one and it quickly was returned to the shelf. I don't specifically remember what I didn't like but to me it was of lower quality than the Lanbers and Huglus around it.


I would be more than happy to continue, but I dont want to take up too much room. I suppose I could post links too. If these aren't enough, please advise so that I can give you more things to stay away from these "guns" :?

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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:07 am 
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Here is a link or two....And yes I understand that some may like them, and some may not. But there are alot of NOT's here with very valid points.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtop ... light=kahn

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtop ... light=kahn

This post and the above, were only a fraction of the FIRST page of the search. :wink: :twisted: :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:11 pm 
Hoselayer,
I have seen those. I have also seen the posts by people including you that said they did not like the fit or finish. I have only seen about 15 or so that have come in my friends gun shop. The fit and finish was excellent on all of those. And also like I have said, I have received one for someone that was crap. I would just suggest that someone in the market take the opinion of those that "handled them" in a store versus those that have used them and weigh the merits of their arguments. If I give my opinion on the value and judgement of an automobile only by looking at them in a showroom and having never test driving them,then my opinion would not be worth the powder to blow them away.

The gunsmith that posted may have a valid argument on the ones that he examined but it does not mean it transfers across the board on all of the brand. I would expect that the internal fit and finish would not be of the quality of the shotguns he listed, they have a reputation for quality. The internal finish has been shown to be very rought on most of the current brand of low end guns, including Baikal, Huglu, and Dehaan (it is just a Huglu with the outside dressed up to a higher standard - his customer service is a notch or 10 above Huglu also) and any of the low enders. They still work and no one will find out how well they work by handling them.

You said the "NOTs" that you mentioned did not have any valid opinions on those threads, they just were mimicking those others who have not had one iota of experience with them and proclaimed them junk.

I have seen the same argument with Browning A bolts on and on ad nauseum. The argument against is always from those who have not shot them or owned them. The arguments for from people who have owned them. Who has the valid frame of reference? I am not asking someone to go buy a Khan bucause I have had a good experience with one gun ( have had a bad experience with the next one of the same brand) I am just stating the value of the opinons with no hands on experience (shooting) and the relationship to certain body parts is certainly fitting.


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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:03 am 
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Anonymous wrote:
I have also seen the posts by people including you that said they did not like the fit or finish. I would just suggest that someone in the market take the opinion of those that "handled them" in a store versus those that have used them and weigh the merits of their arguments.


Actually first impressions do count and the opinion of someone who rejects a gun because of fit and finish has merit. Many have been victim of a product that looked good outside but was defective inside. If the maker won't take time to dress up appearances then they may not have taken time on the internals either. If in doubt, I wouldn't buy, nor would most experienced gun owners. Of course the opinions of actual users have more value if there is a large enough sample. Best example is the Baikals who still get hammered for their crude appearance but generally praised for their innards, and there are many people, even long time users, who defend the Baikal. Not so with Khans - there are a few defenders, no long time users that I've seen. Considerig the price, there should be enough examples of Khans out there, even though it is a small brand, to get a good real life picture - hasn't happened yet.

Quote:
The gunsmith that posted may have a valid argument on the ones that he examined but it does not mean it transfers across the board on all of the brand


Doesn't mean it doesn't transfer across the board either. I once looked into Khans and the biggest rap I have against them is the apparent inconsistant quality of Khan in particular, but Turkish and low end imports in general. Having been stationed in several third world countries and seen their goods, this tells me the good examples you see were assembled or checked by the master craftsman in residence, and the junky examples by Joe Newguy. The inbetween examples by the inbetween experienced workers. Compare this with the new 870 Express - common observation, poor finish on the external metal, internals are initially rough but break in well over time, proven design. These comments are consistent so you can pretty reliably weigh the pluses and minuses and decide. Same now with Baikals - not so with Khans.

Quote:
The internal finish has been shown to be very rought on most of the current brand of low end guns, -------- They still work and no one will find out how well they work by handling them (as opposed to shooting them).-----------I am not asking someone to go buy a Khan bucause I have had a good experience with one gun ( have had a bad experience with the next one of the same brand) I am just stating the value of the opinons with no hands on experience


True, there are regulars on SGW who slam all low end guns foreign and domestic. They aren't really snobs - they just don't appreciate the changes that have taken place in manufacturing and the seeming decline in quality compared to what they're used to. But there are many low end gun owners and associates who also post to put the view in perspective. Regards Khans and Turkish guns in general, I think the potential for consistently produced, decent quality guns is there, but hasn't been worked out yet. Price is an important consideration for me and I can't afford to be the one to field test a potentially poor quality item. Someone else can have the honor, especially when there ARE proven examples in the price range the original poster asked about. IE a used Stevens 311 or Savage Fox, which I have, use a lot, and am very happy with. So, unless I had very small use requirements for a gun, and/or had money to burn I too would stay away from Khans for now.

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 Post subject: Re: Khan 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:52 pm 
New geezeer, well thought out reply. I too was tempted by the khan at Big 5, but after talking to district manager, found they have a much higher than normal return rate. The reasons were varied, but failure to fire second barrel was most common. I ended up with a Lanber and could'nt be happier. Had a smith lighten the trigger and his comment was they were well machined/fitted on the inside. In the sub $1000., hell sub $700. market, Lanber gets my vote. I also read a verry favorable article about Lanber by Michael MacIntosh who usually writes about the high end stuff. His conclusion was best bang for the buck (or duck, pheasant, quail, clay target) LOL. Good shooting to all.


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