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CHOKE MEASUREMENTS

2K views 24 replies 15 participants last post by  T-roy 120 
#1 ·
Do you guys think we need this many chokes tubes CYL SK IC LM M IM LF F XF? I think for the shooting I do SK, LM and IM would suit me 99% of the time. How about the old british way, 4 chokes cover it all, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full. Heres more to think about If .010 is IC and .020 is mod and .025 is imp mod then why is .035 full, there is only .005 between mod and IM and .010 between the rest. And some books I read says .010, .020, .030, and .040 is IC MOD IM and full. Which is right? Is the 10 ,20, 30, 40, the way guns were choked when most ammo had a fiber wad or what? If 35 thousandths is really full wouldnt it be better to have choke intrevals in 9 thousandths? .009=IC/quarter, for close shots and steel loads, .018=MOD/half, mid range and long range with steel loads, .027=IM/three quarter, long range with lead and steel goose loads and .036=full, reach out and touch them with lead loads crow, late season phesants. Kinda a cross between both choking measuring systems. I think 4 chokes would cover everything I would need. Or am I just crazy? Just thinking out loud.
 
#2 ·
Okay, you about covered the 12 ga. Now do the same for the 10, 16, 20, 24, 28, and .410.
(Oh, and don't forget that the .410 is "patterned" at 25 yards.) :roll:

In the recent past and fixed chokes, most people got along with ONE choke if they owned a single, bolt, lever, pump, or auto. They had two chokes if they had a double. Life was simple, it worked, and they got along with it.

BobK
 
#3 ·
I know many SC's shooers who use a close , medium and far system ( I do , too).

skeet, LM and IM is a good one. For a 2 barreled gun, 2 of each.
 
#4 ·
The more I compare the patterns of my different fixed choke and choke tube guns the more I come to believe that the differences in chokes are pretty insignificant in the field unless it's a big jump. What I mean is the difference between cylinder and modified is useful or say improved cylinder and full. Switching from cylinder to improved cylinder choke would make some difference I suppose, but not very much. For example I have a side-by-side 28 gauge that's choked cylinder and improved cylinder. I can do all the pellet counts I want and compare percentages till the cows come home but when you stand back and look at the actual patterns on a sheet of paper side to side, the difference is pretty trivial.
 
#5 ·
Well three pellets that break a target and two that don't is a pretty trivial difference also...Pheasants dead in the air, others floppin on the ground still others runnin lke little deer can all be diferences of only one or two pellets also......
As to Cyl, Skt, IC, Lt Mod, Mod, I/Mod, Lt Full, Full, X/Full.....what are youse guys proposing? that the designations be outlawed?....manufacturing of those offensive names be forbidden?...standardization of dimentions?...010" is I/C while .009" or .013" isn't?......stop using the dumb names....measure the constrictions....measure the bores....find out what really happens to your patterns....what amount of constriction really gives you the pattern you want....Yeah count the pellets in the payload, then count the holes, then figgure the percentages......
or don't....and do what you will....
but to just declare/imply that all these chokes are not needed is silly....everyone must decide for themselves and not look for justification on a chat forum....advice yeah sure...but only as a starting point.....
if ya don't want to test then decide by reading tea leaves or reading the lumps on your head, chicken entrails...anyway you want...me, I'll count the payload and count the holes...and note the difference between the patterns thrown by .014" and .018" constrictions with the same and different loads....funny thing both those chokes say Mod on em....Art

P.S. Anybody that can afford multiple guns, quite often in the $2000. range can afford a snap ***** and micrometer from Granger....IMO
 
#6 ·
I'm for the easy life, a fixed choke gun with IM in both barrels. It patterns very nicely and breaks clays at all distances,as long as I do my bit.
No worrying what choke to use or did I use the right chokes.

Vic
 
#8 ·
lizardbreath said:
Well three pellets that break a target and two that don't is a pretty trivial difference also...Pheasants dead in the air, others floppin on the ground still others runnin lke little deer can all be diferences of only one or two pellets also......
As to Cyl, Skt, IC, Lt Mod, Mod, I/Mod, Lt Full, Full, X/Full.....what are youse guys proposing? that the designations be outlawed?....manufacturing of those offensive names be forbidden?...standardization of dimentions?...010" is I/C while .009" or .013" isn't?......stop using the dumb names....measure the constrictions....measure the bores....find out what really happens to your patterns....what amount of constriction really gives you the pattern you want....Yeah count the pellets in the payload, then count the holes, then figgure the percentages......
or don't....and do what you will....
but to just declare/imply that all these chokes are not needed is silly....everyone must decide for themselves and not look for justification on a chat forum....advice yeah sure...but only as a starting point.....
if ya don't want to test then decide by reading tea leaves or reading the lumps on your head, chicken entrails...anyway you want...me, I'll count the payload and count the holes...and note the difference between the patterns thrown by .014" and .018" constrictions with the same and different loads....funny thing both those chokes say Mod on em....Art

P.S. Anybody that can afford multiple guns, quite often in the $2000. range can afford a snap ***** and micrometer from Granger....IMO
Just having a decussion. Not implying anything.
Go take a nap, your cranky.
 
#9 ·
:lol: :lol: :lol: You're right.....I am.....gonna go nap......Art
 
#10 ·
T-roy 120
I like so many others have done my part to make the choke manufacturers prosperous.
At this point I never change chokes.
The choke that you have the most confidence in is the best choke for you.
I prefer Mod or IMod because the breaks are so much more pleasing.
Hope this helps;
Chuck
 
#11 ·
I also have more tubes than I need but they are like Forest Gump's chocolates, you don't know what you have until you try them. For pheasants I have always liked Mod. in a 12 gauge but in my 20, I have more confidence in a Full choke. Don't ask why because I can't answer that one.
Rex
 
#12 ·
My take of the evolution of chokes.

When wads were fiber and there was no shot cup choke was defined by the percentage of shot that was placed in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. It so happened that .010 inch constriction difference produce close to the percentages for IC, Mod, IM and Full.

The Skeet shooters found that IC was a little too tight and Cylinder often gave a donut pattern. So .005 constriction emerges as the skeet choke.

Then comes the development of the plastic wad with shot cup. Full choke .040 constriction now puts more pellets than the 70% that a Full choke was suppose to into a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. Plus the development of choke tubes, it seems logical to define the constrictions in .005 inch constrictions. Since when Sporting Clays takes off in the U.S. many feel that IC .010 is too open and Mod .020 is too tight. So .015 is invented and toted as the best thing since sliced bread. Then changing IM from .030 to .025, making .030 Light Full, Full .035 and .040 X-Full.

I feel that choke should be defined by the constriction, the .005 increments is fine as the U.S. system were Sk .005, IC .010, LtMod .015 etc. Forget about the percentage of shot in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. Because of the plastic wads with shot-cups/ammo manufacturing and the advancements in choke and barrel manufacturing, each shooter needs to find out what kind of patterns the ammo and chokes that they are using will produce.

Of course the Europeans can keep there metric system of 1 thru 10 or higher. FYI 1 translates to about .004 inch so that would be about a U.S. Skeet, 2 is .008 inch, etc. to 10 being .040.
 
#13 ·
Boy, THERE'S an "old wives' tale that goes back to black powder days! "Donut holes" from a Cylinder bore!!

Funny, but with modern guns and with modern barrels (and cylinder choke tubes, too!) I have never seen one, and I have shot a lot of patterns. In fact, I shoot a lot of cylinder barrels (or tubes) for skeet, as it gives super patterns at 20 yards (and that is the "optimum" skeet distance!)

BobK
 
#14 ·
Lots of good info. I have 1 more question. I have patterned many guns but have never been a pellet counter much, as I would shoot at paper and take a cut out of a mallard or dove or what ever and cheak for pattern density and holes a bird could fly through. Now to the question. With a 20 ga. being 4 thousandths constriction between choke designations and 12 ga being 5 thousandths does a backbored gun need a bit more choke to get the same pattern %s as a standard bored gun like 40 for full choke as apposed to 35? Just wondering.
 
#18 ·
wadd46 said:
This almost sounds like magnumitis except in chokes. Who cares what someone else uses or how many choke tubes they have?
If ya dont like it dont post no ones feeling will be hurt if you dont. Whats up with all the negative crap? Just having a chat. If you cant say something of worth keep your pie hole shut.
 
#19 ·
I think chokes are highly over-rated, period. Yes, you can pattern and select the right loads, etc. for your specific gun. That's not a bad thing to do but none of this will do much for you if you can't hit a cow in the butt with a snow shovel. I typically use an O/U or SxS. One of my 20 gauges is IC and Mod. The other is IC and Full. Both guns have mesmerized me on everything from ducks to quail - when the guy behind it is "on". Again, knowing what works in your gun is utile for sure, but it won't make a bad shooter into a consistent hitter. Now if you're a competitive shooter, you need every edge you can get both hardware-wise and phsycologically - granted.
As I say, I've shot wood ducks while hunting river bottoms to Huns on the prairies. Personally, I wouldn't buy a double gun with screw-in chokes. As for semis or pumps, well.....maybe. I'm more likely to buy a dedicated barrel with whatever choke was appropriate.
I've seen more damage done from a poor choice in shells than I have as a result of choke. For example, at a local hunt club I witnessed more lost birds or cripples as a result of shooting 7 1/2 on chukars as apposed to 6s. You simply would not believe how many times a chukar would take those 7 1/2s, fly clear across a field or two only to be found later (thanks to the dogs) lying dead or almost dead!
On a list of priorities such as fit, barrel length, single versus double trigger, weight, shot size, etc., I'd rank chokes VERY near the bottom, marginally above beads - just my opinion.
 
#20 ·
I started shotgunning in the early '50s. Most single barreled guns were full choked with IC for upland and Skeet for that venue. How did we ever hit anything? It is a wonder that we ever got a quail or phesant or a trraight 25 at trap or skeet !
 
#22 ·
I agree with you about choke to some degree but if you have a modified choke and your hunting wood ducks on a creek 10 yards wide and the vegetation is thick on both sides I think you would agree that we would be over choked? In open areas it just gives me more confidence to know I have a choke/load that patterns to the range Im shooting. When I duck hunt I use steel and shoot a LM choke--(most of the time), I use the same choke for sporting clays, 16yrd trap and dove hunting also. But when I hunt geese I use a IM cause I want to put as many large pellets in the bird as I can, as they are tough birds. Would you use a driver to putt with if you were playing golf, or a putter to try and get your ball to go 175 yrds?
I also agree that the right load is more important and that choke tubes arent going to make a bad shooter good. I have shot ruffed grouse, crows, and pigeos with 7.5s but I had rather shoot 6s. 7.5s do fine close but at longer ranges (which I never see with grouse) they cripple. I think to much choke is worse than open chokes. I think it will help a good shooter have better succsess it he is choked and loaded to the job at hand. For a skeet shooter its skeet to a trap shooter its Mod-full, so why not try and do the same in the field? That being said Im not one of those guys that change chokes 5 times because I cant hit anything. I have done that in the past when I was a young learning shooter. But I do carry 3 tubes with me so I can be ready for changes, like when the ducks wont work but the geese start funneling into the field next to the pond your hunting. Or the ducks wont work your sread but every one of them come from the same direction and theres a place to hide in there path so you have to resort to pass shooting. Im just saying if we use them as our situation calls for it would make all of us a little more consistent.
What a boring place the world would be if all semi's had 30" barrels and where choked full. And all the o/u had 28" barrels and were choked ic and mod. Or if there were only 2 types of golf clubs drivers and putters.
 
#23 ·
There was a time not too long ago that it WAS that way. Probably 90% of all guns were either full choke only, of Mod/Full if they had 2 bbls.

But, since there were less people, posted land was a rarity, and damned few housing developments and malls existed, so it was a paradise, with lots of game, and hunting and shooting were very good!!

It was a far cry from BORING!!

BobK
 
#24 ·
When I was growing up all I remember having was modified or full chokes. My dad shot various guns--but usually an autoloader(A5, Win. M50 and M59) or a pumpgun 16ga. Win. M97. These guns were all fixed choke guns exc. the M59 with versalites IC and M.

I started with an old single shot bolt action .410 with full and later a single shot break breach gun full both were Stevens I think. I knocked down my fair share of quail and doves.
Even a few pheasant and prairie chickens fell to the 20ga. I don't remember even knowing what a choke was. Once I graduated up to using the light twelve A5 with modified choke I felt empowered--not by the choke but that the 12ga. was a man's gun.

Now, I have to have cyl. bore through ex-full turkey chokes whenever possible---and spend much less time afield then in my youth. Moral to this story: Don't sweat the small stuff! Put the bead on them and pull the trigger!
 
#25 ·
BobK said:
There was a time not too long ago that it WAS that way. Probably 90% of all guns were either full choke only, of Mod/Full if they had 2 bbls.

But, since there were less people, posted land was a rarity, and damned few housing developments and malls existed, so it was a paradise, with lots of game, and hunting and shooting were very good!!

It was a far cry from BORING!!

BobK
Man, I bet that was a grand time. Me and my duck hunting buddy have had a few discutions about that. I was born in the wrong time. When I was very young we had lots of bob whites. Now we have lots of neighborhoods. Before I was old enuff to hunt every body around had bird dogs or beagles. Now the quail are gone and the ruffed grouse are few and far between. The duck hunting is (supposed) to be better today than ever. But I know guys that hunted 20 and 30 years ago and they say they wouldnt even get out of the bed for the numbers we have now. (I dont live on a flyway) so we dont have the numbers they have on the mississippi or the coast. The most shooting I get is on the clays course. I cant amagine what it would be like out west. Im stuck in east Tn, wish I could trade a retired yankee (no affence) :) , a meth head and a illegal imagrant for 1 bird, we would have the best hunting on the planet! :mrgreen:
 
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