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 Post subject: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:50 am
Posts: 18
hi
any tips on committing to breakpoints
i often change the breakpoint when im shooting without realising and start measuring the lead and then i am not consistant
sometimes i leave the target later and later so that everything changes, lead,timing
the thing is that im unaware of whereabouts the clay is in regard to its flightpath in relation to the background beause im focusing on the clay only

hope this makes sense


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:42 pm 
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If you're referring to skeet shooting,the best tip I can offer is always have a consistent hold point. I think about it as a sequence on events: hold point, target acquisition (lead/timing), and break point. I just lock on my hold point and try not to think about flightpaths, backgrounds, or what color underwear my woman is wearing.

hope this makes sense


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:19 pm
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GAVB, I am very interested in Anthony's comments on this. As a beginning and still learning stage shooter, I suffer with that same issue myself.

I have read at least one article that basically said, for shooters in the learning stage, to commit to a break point and take the shot at that break point even if you aren't sure of the shot or deadly focused on the clay.

The theory was that the technique and repetition of choosing and honoring a break point, in the long run, would lead to better scores, and becoming a better shooter.

Glad you brought up the question.


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:08 am 
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I think you will find that Anthony uses a break "zone". His method is different than those who do more of an intercept method with a defined break point. I'm sure he will answer you shortly and I would encourage you to get his DVD "Timed to Win".


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:50 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:33 pm
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If I don´t commit to a break point I end up riding the bird too long, measuring the lead, stopping the gun and many other evils that make me miss the bird.

When I catch myself doing it and I force myself to take the shot at the predefined breakpoint, all the targets break.

However, every person is different.


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:44 pm 
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I normally shoot the target where I see it the best . If I am "running" with the bird and stretching away to finish my lead I would say it is a break zone. The zone is defined by the area where I see the clay well. My timing of my mount is to connect with the bird or to insert the gun, which happens rather close to my hold point. I then run with the clay beginning to focus as the gun starts to stretch away from the clay and my brain tells me to fire as the correct has opened up somewhere in this break zone. Even though it is a zone my actually break point would be rather consistent from pair to pair. The timing of the shot is to get connected, more related to hold point than to actual break point....

When I am mounting to the lead to make the shot (MMS) it is a break point, not a zone. This is not my base technique, but I do use the approach on occasion. I use it much more in FITASC than sporting. The reason it is necessary with this approach to have a defined break point is due to timing. The timing of the mount is from the hold point to break point hence why it must be a point not a zone in this approach... In other words I use my mount to establish the lead by timing it to my break point......


A very complex topic to fully understand, but great thread.... I hope this helps


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Thanks Anthony

I will have to read that again a few times to digest that

do you explain that in your DVD as im struggling a bit to understand fully what you mean


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:38 am 
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Yes, it is in the DVD... this is pretty complex language of shooting and mounting.. Don't feel bad, if you don't fully understand this... Let me know how I can make it more clear....


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:39 pm 
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thanks anthony for your time, much apprciated.

i thnk i get it :?

is there a way to practice your timing without firing, indoors for example with snap caps

i shot the weekend and was told i was rushing so moved my hold point further from the trap and also my visual pickup further out, would this be the definition of timing?


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:10 am 
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Timing is the speed at which the gun comes to your face as to allow you to insert the gun in relation to the target....

Variables that affect the timing or are related to understanding timing: hold point, when you start your hands, and where you want to insert the gun in relation to the bird,


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:50 am
Posts: 18
thanks again

i get it now

so you cant really practice timing unless at the range

on a side note
were or are there any training drills you practiced regularly in the comfort of your own home to reach the standard you have. either with or without the gun


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:00 am
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Location: Tasmania Australia
Hope Anthony doesn't mind me adding to this?

I like to leave my shotgun in a "safe" place in the house. (triple checked that it's unloaded)
Every time I pass the gun, I practice mounting it, from a low gun position. Concentrate on bringing the gun up to your cheek, not cheek down to the comb. Stare at an object (door knob, light switch, trophy etc.) and mount the gun at the object, at all times trying to be consistent.

I like to repeat this 10-20 times, it's good for hand-eye co-ordination, and it also strengthens muscles that you only use to shoot.

Then, point at the join between ceiling and walls, look 1-3 feet left of your muzzle, and leaving your eyes at that gap, run your swing along that line. then do it to the right.
You will see that if you only look at the line, you can easily stay bang on line.

Now, point at that same line, but this time, look at your bead, as you swing along the line.

Can't stay straight, looking at the bead, can you?

A good lesson why we should only focus on the clay, or what we want to hit!

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 203
Great advice, l do same, also l do same in my yard, l use small birds as my sighters, do not shoot them by the way.


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:20 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Houston, Texas
This couldn't have been a better timed post. I started great yesterday, but alas, the wheels came off after 24 23 22 21, then I missed a BUNCH! I found that if I just set up with a good hold point, called, then broke the bird over, or just before, the trap house, all was good. If I tracked and measured, miss, miss, miss. It was embarrassing, worst I've shot in months. I've been pretty consistent, 90 is average for me with a 28. I bet I didn't shoot 70 on my 2nd 100 on Saturday.

HELP, I've fallen off and I can't get up!


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:11 pm
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Location: Shreveport, LA
Anthony,

I have always struggled with quartering targets. More specific, a quartering target from about 4 or 5 o clock with the trap set 10 to 15 yards in front of the cage. What is it about these targets that totally confuses my brain into thinking they need lead? I also have a very hard time letting the bird come to the gun. I am not sure if it is habit to move mount and shoot this clay, or whether it is being worried about break point since the bird usually is fast and I stay worried about break point. I will admit I cant see these targets as well. Not sure if it is the speed or the fact that it is traveling away (4 o clock to 10 or 11). When I hold low gun and try to mount into the bird i feel rushed. If i move my hold point out I dont feel like I have the right finesse. I guess it boils down to experience. Just wondering if you had any pointers on what might make this particular target seem more difficult to the eye than it may actually be. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:42 am 
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dillon,

I was working on that presentation today.
you said
"What is it about these targets that totally confuses my brain into thinking they need lead", that's exactly what the target setter wants you to think. I find it's important to really read these targets, look at what the bird is doing at the breakpoint, it might be just hanging and you can aim right at it. I like to look at it in sort of a 2 dimensional box, ignore the speed it is going away from you and only notice the amount of up/down and left/right at the breakpoint.

I'm sure Anthony will have good advice, but for me today it was simply reading the bird properly and having the patience to let the bird get to the barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:34 pm 
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A 4:00 to 11:00 target that is rather quick will be a pre-mount shot and a big part of the equation is set up and hold point. In general try to hold on line. This target (angle) could take very little lead or could take some depending on speed and distance. Your hands need to start on the flash or movement, but need to start very slow to merge the gun and the bird together. If it is slow you will start on the front edge when you merge with the clay. If it is fast you may feel that you stay slightly ahead. The total move with the clay will be very small, but I try to connect or merge as early as possible as long as I am not beat by the clay or feel rushed.


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:36 pm 
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How do you commit to a break point when the targets is in the sky?

I have a hard time doing that. When I shoot targets in the woods I can always figure on a break point at the tree or an opening in the trees.

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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:26 am 
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Committing to a break point depends on the shot. Generally on a crosser that gives me time I am not really committed to a break point, but rather a break zone. On a shot that has one good spot to kill it think of committing to a break point as more of an idea than an exact point in the sky. In other words you make a move to the "lead" and are committed to pulling the trigger as the gun gets to face. Generally I only use this approach when forced to. For instance I use it more in FITASC as I have less time to run with the bird with a lower gun. If you read from the start of this thread I think it give a good explanation of this.


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 Post subject: Re: commiting to breakpoint
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:00 pm 
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Sometimes it helps to commit to a point in the trajectory, as that is easy to see if you are, as you are supposed to be doing, looking intently at the bird.


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