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Tragic death of clays shooter at Florida's Tenoroc range!

11K views 64 replies 46 participants last post by  ysr_racer 
#1 ·
#27 ·
Maybe they dropped a shell while In the box, tucked the gun under the box at an angle butt first so that he can hold the barrel as to not drop the gun, picked up the shell, and raised the gun up by the barrel, in doing so, the trigger could have caught a branch twig in the trigger guard . I'm just speculating.
 
#31 ·
1st, condolences to all involved are in order, it is very unfortunate for both families and loved ones of each of the men involved. Both families will be deeply marred by the incident.

2nd, I put the question to the forum, how old is too old to be shooting clays? Obviously this sport is full of older retired folks. Assuming both of these men were in their early 70's? We had an incident a few years ago by an elderly gentlemen that resulted in a fatality as well. I know Florida struggles with elderly drivers, some who have failed their driving lisc. renewal tests but refuse to stop driving. As we age we lose memory, attention spans dwindle, orneryness goes up, it's a given. For you, is there an age that you will voluntarily stop clay shooting/duck hunting at? Some age gracefully and are sharp as ever at 80, some seem to be a little confused in their mid 60's. How will you determine when it is your time to hang up the sport and move on to recreation that is less lethal? Should a gun club do more / take more responsibility with elderly shooters to say "no more", effectively policing the sport? As the Boomers age, I think this is an issue nobody wants to talk about or recognize. We're all responsibile for safety, and choose who we shoot with, but should we say more when we see older folks who may be making more safety mistakes? If so, how do you say it and not allienate the elderly, which can be very difficult on a number of topics, let alone shooting and gun safety?
 
#33 ·
GrizzlyAlan said:
70's - elderly? Not in my book.

I shoot regularly with guys in their 80's and they are safe (and usually better than me!) shooters.

Just how old are you?

Careless isn't a function of age.
Griz, I mostly agree, but I have seen instances where previously safe shooters begin to lose their attentiveness due to memory issues and/or even dementia. It can be slow and insidious but it happens with some frequency. Sometimes the warning sign is when shooters indicate "Just don't squad me with John Doe."
 
#34 ·
I used to shoot with a gentleman in his mid to late 80's. He was a fine shot and a true gentleman but in the last couple of years it became apparent that he was forgetting where the targets were thrown from in 5 stand. Until someone had to stand behind him and remind him. One day the club got a call from an irate motorist. Coming from the north you have to cross a busy highway to get to the club entrance, well apparently he just made the turn without looking and cut them off.
I never saw him have a safety problem on the range. I haven't seen him lately. I don't know if the club said something to him or he decided on his own or he's not driving anymore. Or I just haven't been there when he was. I do miss shooting with him though.
At registered shoots this usually isn't a problem, but at charity shoots I tend to watch everyone like a hawk to ensure that there are no safety violations.
 
#35 ·
I don't know what the authorities are doing in the way of an investigation, but I would suggest that they examine the wad and shot size of the pellets found inside the dead man. Comparing that with the brand and shot size of ammo that each shooter was shooting that day may give some indication of which gun fired the shot.

Since the dead man obviously can't speak, this would help confirm (or refute) what the dead man's shooting partner is saying.

Personally, not knowing either of the people involved (as far as I know), I tend to think that it was either a tragic accident or a strange way/time for someone to commit suicide.
 
#36 ·
Getting ready to graduate to senior supervet, I can't totally disagree with the relevance of age to safety. I know I can't see or hear as well as I once did; and concentration sometimes seems to be an issue as well. Besides that, there's always the danger of stroke. heart attack, dizziness, fainting, etc. - all of which can occur while holding a loaded gun.
But the fact is that you're going to see a higher percentage of older shooters in the future. Sporting clays hasn't caught up with trap and skeet. I went to the Ohio State trapshoot a couple years ago, and commented that the average age must have been 100!
Forget about the juniors and sub-juniors. They never stay with the sport very long. The old retired guys are the future of the sport, like it or not.

cafowler1000: We don't "loose memory." We lose memory.
 
#37 ·
Chronological age has little bearing on the issue of capability. I know guys in their 50s who are a menace to themselves and everyone around them...with cars, guns, power tools and all the rest. Conversely, I know guys in their 80s who are still sharp as a tack and very safe in whatever they do. You can't judge a person's capability by the number of years they have lived.
 
#38 ·
The ref told our squad someone earlier that day had put one into the ground right next to the hoop as he left it at the Seafood Blast FITASC this spring.

In my experience ANYONE [including myself] can make 'safety' mistakes.

My position is that I don't trust any gun. Period.

And people STOP sweeping me with your unloaded gun as you leave the stand or get it out of your cart. I don't give a fark that it's unloaded.

Cased guns riding horizontally on the racks of ATV's bug the crap out of me too. i.e. 2 at the U S Open this year.
 
#39 ·
No One Here Gets Out Alive - Jim Morrison

We all get old, we all die, there'd be no place left to park if we didn't - ysr_racer
 
#40 ·
Snowbound said:
The ref told our squad someone earlier that day had put one into the ground right next to the hoop as he left it at the Seafood Blast FITASC this spring.

In my experience ANYONE [including myself] can make 'safety' mistakes.

Cased guns riding horizontally on the racks of ATV's bug the crap out of me too. i.e. 2 at the U S Open this year.
I that was prohibited???

Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
 
#41 ·
OldSkeeter said:
Chronological age has little bearing on the issue of capability. I know guys in their 50s who are a menace to themselves and everyone around them...with cars, guns, power tools and all the rest. Conversely, I know guys in their 80s who are still sharp as a tack and very safe in whatever they do. You can't judge a person's capability by the number of years they have lived.
My dad flew his SNJ (AT6) until he was 92. You tell him he's lost it!

Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
 
#43 ·
cafowler1000 said:
1st, condolences to all involved are in order, it is very unfortunate for both families and loved ones of each of the men involved. Both families will be deeply marred by the incident.

2nd, I put the question to the forum, how old is too old to be shooting clays? Obviously this sport is full of older retired folks. Assuming both of these men were in their early 70's? We had an incident a few years by an elderly gentlemen that resulted in a fatality as well. I know Florida struggles with elderly drivers, some who have failed their driving lisc. renewal tests but refuse to stop driving. As we age we loose memory, attention spans dwindle, orneryness goes up, it's a given. For you, is there an age that you will voluntarily stop clay shooting/duck hunting at? Some age gracefully and are sharp as ever at 80, some seem to be a little confused in their mid 60's. How will you determine when it is your time to hang up the sport and move on to recreation that is less lethal? Should a gun club do more / take more responsibility with elderly shooters to say "no more", effectively policing the sport? As the Boomers age, I think this is an issue nobody wants to talk about or recognize. We're all responsibile for safety, and choose who we shoot with, but should we say more when we see older folks who may be making more safety mistakes? If so, how do you say it and not allienate the elderly, which can be very difficult on a number of topics, let alone shooting and gun safety?
I shoot with NSCA HOF Bud Wolfe regularly and did so today on the FITASC practice parcour he set up - Gent shot a perfect 25 today - he is 85 years young and has been shooting (according to him) 78 years; drives his Suburban pulling his ATV to shoots, etc.

Point is, age is not something to be arbitrarily set
 
#46 ·
dickgtax said:
The old retired guys are the future of the sport, like it or not.

cafowler1000: We don't "loose memory." We lose memory.
Fixed it, it's hell getting old, I forget;
lose memory, not loose stool.....

Brad,
You must be really old, anyone quoting Jim Morrison has to be way over the hill.... When The Who sang "I hope I die before I get old", I always figured that was about 32. Now, I'm thinking they really meant about 72. Funny how the boggy moves the older you get. I certainly don't feel old, unless maybe I forgot I was feeling old last week?

Thanks for the insight and replies. I only bring this concern up as I have had cause to consider it more than a few times in the last year. I've always joked I only have 25 duck seasons left so I can't miss a single day. I've subconciously pegged I will only hunt till I'm 70. Maybe it's a self imposed limitation that I may not find as acceptable in 25 years as I do now? I don't think score has anything to do with the concern, just because the nerves/muscles are still there, doesn't mean the forgetfulness or lack of attention is missing. I've seen a number of instances the last 2 years that made me reel, most with guys over 70. Maybe I'm just overly cautious?
 
#47 ·
I'm not saying guys in their 80's shouldn't shoot, I'm just saying someone in their 80's that's as sharp as they were in their 50's is the exception rather than the rule.

As I said before, we all get old, we all die, it's just the way it is.

Knowing that, I'd say live life to the fullest because one day too late, is too late.

And even though I'm 55, some days I feel like 100. I used to race motorcycles, and over my career I managed to break both shoulder blades, one collar bone, countless ribs, fingers and toes, but luckily not my trigger finger.
 
#49 ·
Enough of the jokes. Serious ****... I shoot sporting clays and other clay sports, I also give lessons.
I start with SAFETY. Stick with the rules. Was at the US Open and saw a few no no's and addressed the violators at that point, not later [too late later]. Usually happens when lax rules exist.
Alot of skeet and sporting clay shooters load more than TWO rounds as they shoot, as they will shoot 4 rounds. Address the problem NOW, before something happens.
SAFETY, SAFETY, NOW... The life you save may be your own...
 
#51 ·
Capt Rich said:
Enough of the jokes. Serious sh*t... I shoot sporting clays and other clay sports, I also give lessons.
I start with SAFETY. Stick with the rules. Was at the US Open and saw a few no no's and addressed the violators at that point, not later [too late later]. Usually happens when lax rules exist.
Alot of skeet and sporting clay shooters load more than TWO rounds as they shoot, as they will shoot 4 rounds. Address the problem NOW, before something happens.
SAFETY, SAFETY, NOW... The life you save may be your own...
I would disagree with that statement about a LOT of shooters loading more than two rounds on the sporting clays range or skeet range. I haven't seen that happen more than a couple of times in my life. When I do see it, I tell them in no uncertain terms that they are violating the range safety rules and they can correct that right now or I'll report it immediately. Once they understand that I'm not going to tolerate that sh*t, they usually comply immediately. If they don't, then I'm getting the h*ll outta Dodge. Anyone who doesn't do the same as me is complicit in their unsafe acts and are just as guilty as the one committing the act.
 
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