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 Post subject: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:42 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:36 pm
Posts: 7
good evening,

I am needing to spend some FSA money before the year is over and I am looking at getting some custom electronic in ear plugs made.

I plan on using these for clay shooting as well as hunting. I have been looking at Tetra, E.S.P. and wildear.

I am looking to spend around $1000-1500 on these and was wondering what kind of experiences those of you on here have had with custom electronic ear plugs.

thanks,




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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:46 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 531
Location: Missoula, MT
Is it necessary to spend that much money? I bought these and they work fine:

https://www.amazon.com/EEP-100-Recharge ... 102&sr=8-1

Randy

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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:22 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:04 pm
Posts: 14
I have had Axil for last several years. In USPSA competitions or hunting I have had them in for 8+ hours and no discomfort.

https://www.goaxil.com/product-category ... ring-aids/


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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:49 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 8:30 pm
Posts: 18
randyflycaster wrote:
Is it necessary to spend that much money? I bought these and they work fine:

https://www.amazon.com/EEP-100-Recharge ... 102&sr=8-1

Randy


Almost nothing we post about is nessary.....


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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:07 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
Posts: 686
I just bought some Axil non-custom electronic plugs. The Ghost Stryke Extreme. Less than $200. I like them but can see the value in the custom plugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:36 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 2099
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
There are many types of ear plugs and many types of noises/sounds. The plug must be matched to the sound to do the MOST good. Buy your shooting hearing protection from a skilled audiologist that understands what you are looking for. Then they will fit you perfectly and be made from the correct material for shooting noise reduction.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:14 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:37 pm
Posts: 1079
Location: colorado
For pure protection, electronic muffs over plugs (solid or foam) can’t be beat. After that, provided foam plugs fit they give the most protection, then solid custom plugs, and last the little silicone tree style.
Between all the custom type plugs with electronics, it’s really more about fidelity than protection. Cheap ones simply over saturate the amplifier to limit sound level. The ones with more expensive circuits cut the amplification and are also programmable for gain. Makes it so you can match your loss with amplification. They may have programming to cut wind noise as well.
IMHO digital is sold as perceived better protection. It isn’t. Simply look at the ipil or nrr data. Same protection, just potentially better sound that you hear when they are amplifying.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 2099
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
slotracer577 wrote:
. provided foam plugs fit they give the most protection, .


And there is the problem, fit, there is no way one size fits all correctly. And looking at the NRR numbers I will tell you they are not as good as my custom molded plugs from an audiologist. These where molded for one purpose, to reduce firearm reports to a safe level.
Remember, once your hearing is damaged and gone its not coming back. Buy the best you can.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:27 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:37 pm
Posts: 1079
Location: colorado
YevetS wrote:
slotracer577 wrote:
. provided foam plugs fit they give the most protection, .


And there is the problem, fit, there is no way one size fits all correctly. And looking at the NRR numbers I will tell you they are not as good as my custom molded plugs from an audiologist. These where molded for one purpose, to reduce firearm reports to a safe level.
Remember, once your hearing is damaged and gone its not coming back. Buy the best you can.

Steve


If foam plugs don’t fit well, ie tapered ear canals or oval canals they don’t work well. It does come down to fit for foam plugs. Real world protection without proper training also show them to be poor performers.

Unfortunately silicone or acrylic plugs don’t test as well for absolute protection with proper fit. I wish they did, but in personal testing and from testing at a previous employer (one of the largest earmold labs in the us) solid plugs don’t give the same level of protection. I tried, even made a pair for myself that are far longer canals than the lab would ever make for a customer. They were a bit unpleasant to wear and even those didn’t work as well as properly fit foam plugs. Normal length canals were a little lower protection.

If foam plugs don’t fit you well, then yes custom plugs are the best option. The slight reduction in protection over foam is nothing compared to the drop of them being worn incorrectly. If your ear fits foam plugs well, they are the best single protection available. Might not be the most comfortable.

I found for me, with foam plugs all the way in, I would get over 30db of protection. Pull then out 1/8-1/4” and that dropped to 15 db. All about fit. I would guess many who wear foam plugs would get more protection from customs simply because they don’t wear foam correctly. This is backed up with test data. We did subject fit testing and it was slightly over 25 db for customs.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:33 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
Posts: 686
Auldthymer wrote:
I just bought some Axil non-custom electronic plugs. The Ghost Stryke Extreme. Less than $200. I like them but can see the value in the custom plugs.

Following up the above post, I tried out the new electronic ear buds today while shooting and was terribly disappointed. NRR was nowhere near sufficient. The amplification works fine, but noise reduction is extremely poor. I get superb NRR from long foam plugs rolled into tight cones and inserted deep into my ears. Unmatched by any other device or method. The Axil tips are short and stubby. They are foam and can be rolled tightly, but there is just not enough surface area to make the necessary seal for me.

I ordered a few alternative foam tips to see if I could jury rig a useful system, but I am not hopeful. I will report the results of that, but my guess is I will be sending the product back for refund. It appear ai will have to return to my standard system. Long foam plugs alone when ai am shooting you myself for best protection. When shooting with other people I want to hear, I use a slightly shorter plug in my off-side ear and wear an amplifying muff only on that side to avoid fouling it on the gun. For now thst appears to be the best I can do.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:50 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 6012
Auldthymer wrote:
Auldthymer wrote:
I just bought some Axil non-custom electronic plugs. The Ghost Stryke Extreme. Less than $200. I like them but can see the value in the custom plugs.

Following up the above post, I tried out the new electronic ear buds today while shooting and was terribly disappointed. NRR was nowhere near sufficient. The amplification works fine, but noise reduction is extremely poor. I get superb NRR from long foam plugs rolled into tight cones and inserted deep into my ears. Unmatched by any other device or method. The Axil tips are short and stubby. They are foam and can be rolled tightly, but there is just not enough surface area to make the necessary seal for me.

I ordered a few alternative foam tips to see if I could jury rig a useful system, but I am not hopeful. I will report the results of that, but my guess is I will be sending the product back for refund. It appear ai will have to return to my standard system. Long foam plugs alone when ai am shooting you myself for best protection. When shooting with other people I want to hear, I use a slightly shorter plug in my off-side ear and wear an amplifying muff only on that side to avoid fouling it on the gun. For now thst appears to be the best I can do.


Good call, RP:-)


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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:15 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 531
Location: Missoula, MT
I find that using bigger foam or rubber inserts help.

Randy

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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:08 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:46 pm
Posts: 1199
I was told by an audiologist that a significant amount of the hearing loss from shooting a shotgun comes from the vibration that travels thru the stock, into the cheek bone, then to the ear canal where the ear drum and nerves that cause us to hear reside.

If that is true, then it seems that ear protection inserts and a pad on the stock to stop the transmission of the vibrations should all be part of hearing protection.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:16 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:37 pm
Posts: 1079
Location: colorado
moocher wrote:
I was told by an audiologist that a significant amount of the hearing loss from shooting a shotgun comes from the vibration that travels thru the stock, into the cheek bone, then to the ear canal where the ear drum and nerves that cause us to hear reside.

If that is true, then it seems that ear protection inserts and a pad on the stock to stop the transmission of the vibrations should all be part of hearing protection.


I don’t buy it. From the research I have read about off ear noise exposure, it’s a bit less just by the way sound travels around the head. I read one study that was testing if protection was even needed for the off ear.

You do get bone conduction noise exposure and that is one reason why muffs are a good idea. It’s also why muffs and plugs don’t double the protection. There is a limit at about 50db of protection due to bone conduction.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:54 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 341
If you get the best protection (>30 dB) and comfort from foam as I do, then amplifying muffs just won’t penetrate. I have just discovered bone conduction, noise-cancelling amplifiers (Walker’s Raptor and there are also cheaper). I have never had the level of protection and ability to hear normal speech as I get from this combination. It is superb and relatively inexpensive. The plugs are essentially free. The bone conduction amplifiers were <$200. Amazon has some for a fraction of that. And the amplifiers don’t interfere with the gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:25 pm 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 pm
Posts: 575
Location: The wilds of rural central California
Gotta have Bluetooth though.

tp

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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:11 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 341
T-Pee wrote:
Gotta have Bluetooth though.

tp

It does. And an app for your phone to adjust volume and tune the performance.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearing Protection
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:05 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:21 pm
Posts: 5207
Location: UK
moocher wrote:
I was told by an audiologist that a significant amount of the hearing loss from shooting a shotgun comes from the vibration that travels thru the stock, into the cheek bone, then to the ear canal where the ear drum and nerves that cause us to hear reside.

If that is true, then it seems that ear protection inserts and a pad on the stock to stop the transmission of the vibrations should all be part of hearing protection.
Perhaps, but if the cheekbone is resting against the stock then the gun mount is wrong. The cheek pocket between the bone and upper jaw, which is where the comb should sit, is soft and won't transmit vibration.



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