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 Post subject: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:39 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:42 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Elgin, SC
I ordered a new MEC 600 Jr in .410 so I can load for my smallest shotgun finally. Birdshot loads won't be a problem but, I want to load some buckshot loads as well. I have 00 shot and will get some 000 but, the four manuals I have don't show much for loading .410 hulls with buckshot. One manual, Buckshot Loading III from BPI, only has recipes for Cheddite hulls. I'll be using Remington, Federal and Winchester 2-1/2" and 3" hulls.
I've done buckshot for birdshot in my 12 and 20 gauge shotguns and had really good success, nice patterns at 35 yds. so, I'm considering trying that with the .410. Get some wads and powder and do a couple of test loads in each hull to see which does best.
Truthfully, I'd much rather use real recipes instead of working on a "wing and a prayer".
Any assistance will be greatly appreciated! 8)




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 Post subject: re: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:51 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:17 am
Posts: 7
Location: Upstate NY
I cant help with buck shot but I can tell you to save your money and do not purchase Cheddite hulls. I have 200 and cant get the hulls to load properly. They are too soft and collaps very easily. They are also a little taller than the remmingtons and winchester that i had before.


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 Post subject: re: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:04 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:42 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Elgin, SC
Thanks, I wasn't intending to purchase any of those hulls since I have a few thousand Winchester, Remington and Federal resting in boxes in the garage. No need to buy new when once fired will do. :lol:


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 Post subject: re: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:59 pm 
First of all you can buy factory 410 buckshot loads from Winchester.

I have messed around with 410 buckshot loads and I will give you my setup. This is in a AAHS Winchester 410 2.5 inch shell.

Fiochi 616 primer
13.0 grains Alliant .410 Powder
AAHS red wad by Claybuster.
One triple O into shotcup...1/8" 36 cal dry felt wad...one triple O...1/8" 36 cal dry felt wad....one triple 0...felt wad for spacer... normal crimp.
I packed the AA wad seperately then inserted the whole deal into the hull on my 600 junior. Velocity is 1280.

I could get two out of three pellets onto a paper pie plate at 25 steps. Best choke was light skeet in my briley tubes. I don't think this load (or 410 buckshot) is much good for much. In my state it is illegal for hunting dear with so small a gun. Plus past spitting distance it's a crippler on coyotes or pecarries and etc. But there it is. It is what it is. I'd rather have a .22 mag rifle anyday.

Mike


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 Post subject: re: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:50 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:42 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Elgin, SC
I went and purchased a few items for loading the .410 and one was a new LYMAN'S 5th edition manual. This manual has several loads for .410 buckshot so, I'll be loading some buckshot rounds once I get the rest of my components.


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 Post subject: re: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:59 pm
Posts: 384
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Well, if you decide to go beyond those loads you have from the Lyman manual. I can tell you what I generally do. As long as you don't load OOO buck inside the wad and stick to OO buck inside the wad you want create any additional constriction beyond normal shot loads in your load. I have found the following to be true:

~OO buck pellets weigh about 55grains depending on brand
~OOO buck pellets weigh about 70 grains depending on brand
~1/2oz. =218.75grains
~5/8oz. = 273.4375grains
~11/16oz. = 300.78125grains

Therefore:

~1/2oz. load = three OOO pellets (or) four OO pellets
~5/8oz. load = five OO pellets
~11/16oz. load = three OO pellets inside wad and two OOO pellets on top.

I use buffer in all such loads and as I said don't go putting OOO buck pellets down inside the wad and then load via. normal shot load data. If your going to put OOO pellets inside a standard .410 wad you need to get specific load data for that application from a reliable source. For the three OOO pellet 1/2oz. load cut down the pettles of the wad leaving only about an 1/8" deep shot cup or get some of those short stubby wads from Ballistic Products, Inc.

_________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.


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 Post subject: re: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:35 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:42 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Elgin, SC
Finally got back. The load data in LYMAN'S 5th is for a 1/2 oz. load in 2-1/2 and 3" shells using 00 buckshot. Since I have a few pounds of 00 still, I'll roll up a few of them and see how they do. The data also calls for 3 .030" overshot cards on top of the pellets so I'm thinking fold crimps will do fine. If not, I'll get a roll crimper.


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 Post subject: re: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:36 pm 
What problem you been havin with triple oh's in a AAHS wad and hull? Works for me. The wad comes out almost cut in pieces but I never seen one fail to seal. I never tried shooting a triple ought load loaded thusly thru no full choke .410 tho an I do not intend on it. To seperate the pellets you might could try some of them 36 cal blackpowder ball cups specially over the one on the bottom of the stack which suffers the worst. But I never tried it. I done fair with felt. .410 buckshot ain't legal in my state for a thing and I consider them mostly sure-fire cripplers past 20 steps.


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 Post subject: Re: re: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:59 pm
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Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Big Dude wrote:
Finally got back. The load data in LYMAN'S 5th is for a 1/2 oz. load in 2-1/2 and 3" shells using 00 buckshot. Since I have a few pounds of 00 still, I'll roll up a few of them and see how they do. The data also calls for 3 .030" overshot cards on top of the pellets so I'm thinking fold crimps will do fine. If not, I'll get a roll crimper.


Well my first question would be, "Does it actually say 'roll-crimp' somewhere in that load data?" If not they might just be using the card to fill up extra space in the hull on top of the buck shot. If such is the case a dash of shot buffer will accomplish the same thing in the load and your fold crimps will be just fine. So far most of my buck-shot loads have used folded crimps just because I'm lazy and would rather not do the extra step of roll-crimping them when the machine I load on can do a fold crimp in a snap without having to get out all the roll crimp junk --- no problems so far. You should be looking good but I'd recommend you do a small batch ( box of 25 rounds ) and then go pattern them at the range and see how they work before loading up a whole bunch.

mike modelle wrote:
What problem you been havin with triple oh's in a AAHS wad and hull? Works for me. The wad comes out almost cut in pieces but I never seen one fail to seal. . . . .


I'm ASSuming you are refrencing my post where I said don't use OOO buck inside a shot cup and then load via. normal shot load data. Yes, it will work. Problem is that if you use standard shot load data according to the weight of the balls your loads so loaded will excede the pressure limit of the 410 cartridge. Will it blow up your gun? Most likely not since most guns are designed with a buffer zone in strength so they can handle an occasional hot load without killing the operator. Do I like to make a habit of pushing this limit ---- NO !!!!!

Problem with using OOO buck inside a wad is that the buck ball is about 0.360" and the shot petals are about 0.035" thick so the entire diameter of the shot inside the cup is 0.360" + ( 2 x 0.040" ) = 0.430" Yup that's right your trying to shove a round peg of 0.430" diameter down a hole 0.410" diameter. Can it be done? Sure, but its going to take more force to do it then lets say a load with 00 buck ( 0.330" + ( 2 x 0.035" ) = 0.400" ) More force means more pressure which means that shot load data your trying to use calls for too much powder. Put that load in the wrong gun and your going to have heap big troubles.

What it all boils down too ---- If your going to load buck shot for the 410 using standard shot load data and calculating your load via. the weight of the balls the biggest ball size you can put inside the standard wad's shot cup is OO buck. Cut off the petals on those wads or just use a card wad underneath them and you can go all the way up to 0.410" diameter hard cast lead balls from Type-metal so long as your not shooting them through a choked gun. It's a matter of constriction and resulting increases in chamber pressures. If you've actually got load data designed to be used with OOO buck balls inside the shot cup on the wad, this data should take into account the extra force required to swag the whole package down to fit the bore --- by all means use it. I just don't recommend trying this with regular old shot load data.

Oh, yah, I usually use shot buffer in my loads to improve pattern tightness with OO buck inside shot cups or OOO buck outside the shot cup. It fills up that extra space like that extra 0.010" in the OO buck load I mentioned above.

_________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.


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 Post subject: re: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:33 am 
Ain't no metal swagin goin on shootin AAHS .410 triple oughts in a full wad in my Briley tubes cept from compression due to acceleration. Near as I can tell the lead don't never actually touch the barrel walls. Can't be no worser than steel getting accelerated or hittin a choked section now could it? Who knows? They could be real dangerous. My bore size is .415. I shoot 225 grains of small pellets thru AAHS stuff all day and the sound and feel of them loads is the same to me as it is with the triple oughts. I don't see no pressure sign on the triple ought hulls. They don't kick or bellow. But they could be stout for pressure. If you don't like my load I can't blame you and don't take it to heart. But I can tell you one thing fer sure. Your guess on the pressure ain't no better than mine. If you is fearful or cautious do the right thang. Use the published data or buy factory. Meanwhile me and my prosthetic arm be gettin to know each other better. Y'all have a good shootin season and get you plenty of coyotes.


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 Post subject: re: .410 Buckshot loads
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:59 pm
Posts: 384
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Nothing personal man --- everyone loads their own loads (or should !!!). Just explaining why I said what I said. And I agree its not the metal that gets swaged down its the wad if anything. The plastic will give before the metal does.



_________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.


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