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 Post subject: Reloading data for 2 1/2" 12 gauge drilling
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Sweden
Hi all.

I have a delicate problem.
Having just recently bought a nice Germany-manufactured Drilling, dated sometimes between 1912-24 I have stumbled upon the problem to find ammo for it. By the way, here is a picture:
Image
The rifle barrel is a nobrainer, 9,3x72R is avaliable in Sweden from some European manufacturers, and reloading that baby is simple.
The shotshells is however a bit trickier.
The gun uses 2 1/2" shells (65mm in length) and can according to my gunsmith also accept 1/10" longer shells (67,5mm) but not the standard 2 3/4" shotshells.
Also he says it is not a good idea to open up the chambers for pressure reasons. The gunsmith is beyond any doubt a very experienced and knowledgeable one (world famous in Sweden) and I will not question his opinions.

So now I find myself looking into the opening of the big and slightly scary shotshell reloading dungeon :shock:

I have been told by some friends that the road to success is to start obtaining reloading data for the loads I need.
For my training and hunting purposes I think I need data for 7/8, 1, and 1 1/4 ounce loads (24, 28 and 36 grams).
European components are ofcause easiest for me to obtain, but frankly I would appreciate any data for this caliber.
Hunting ammo is avaliable in the shops here but how fun is that? :wink:

So if anyone out there (in here?) can help me with this I would be very happy.




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 Post subject: re: Reloading data for 2 1/2" 12 gauge drilling
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:24 pm 
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Hmmm? A 12 ga German Drilling? I find that a bit unusual. 16s were more or less the standard. Anyway, I think you can get new ammo made by Ely, if you could find it. Even having 2-1/2" data will maybe present a problem for you? What do you have for loading equipment? Most loading equipment is designed for 2-3/4" shells. The short 1/4" can be a booger. Many, many years ago I loaded some very short shells just to try it. I don't think the length in and of it's self really is such a critical issue. If you have data for 2-3/4" loads, and it would be easier with card and wad loads, you can just shorten up the suggested wad length and make it all fit into the hull. You have to more or less do that anyway. If you have your heart set on one piece plastic wads, I can see using a heavier shot charge wad for 2-3/4" shells, since the center cushion section is shorter, maybe about 1/4" shorter, and then trimming the top off the petals to get the correct length for the shorter hulls. Example; use a wad for a 1-1/4 or 1-3/8 oz shell and trim it to fit a 2-1/2" hull. I'd bet it will come pretty danged close. They used to back in the late '60s and early '70s. In those days there weren't all that many different wad designs and lengths, so most of what I did was card and wad. Once you have a combination that fits worked out, any reasonably low pressure load using the same brand of wad and the same components, powder, primer and shot charge will do nicely. Just a 1/4" shorter hull and finished shell isn't the determining factor on whether a load is safe or not. If the components are safe in a 2-3/4" long hull and you can get them to fit nicely into a 2-1/2" hull they will be safe there too. Now, trying to load magnum loads, I'd recommend against that.

When you look at some other 20 and 28 ga loads, with the proper length wads they have been getting traditional 3" shell loads in a 2-3/4" hull for some time.

Good luck!

BTW, I had to make my own modified copy of the old Lee hand loader to load and crimp those shorties. Some that I loaded were only about 2" long. :wink:

Having said that, Ballistic Products and Precision Reloading are both a specialty reloading supply source. They have all kind of oddball stuff available.

Since the gun was made in the 1912 to 1924 era I'm assuming it has barrels that are not Damascus or twist steel, but Krupp steel barrels. Very good barrels, even the early ones. I would, however; keep it on the mild side, which I'm sure is your intent. Shoot it, have fun, but don't ruin it.

BP

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 Post subject: re: Reloading data for 2 1/2" 12 gauge drilling
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:31 pm 
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Location: Alvin, Texas
Honour,

Reloading equipment is easy, because you can use a MEC single stage press to load them by using a 1/4 inch shell plate extender available from Precision Reloading.

I have loaded many of those shells and it works very well. I usually used the standard 2-3/4 inch data, calling for a w/w wad. I then would use the Winchester WAA12R wad which has a very short cushion section, and allow a 1 oz. shot charge and a good crimp.

This should suffice for most hunting conditions.

DLM

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 Post subject: re: Reloading data for 2 1/2" 12 gauge drilling
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:38 pm
Posts: 367
Location: Western Oregon
Honour, What powders do you have available to you? One thing I would consider was keeping the pressures down as you are dealing with wood that is over 80 years old.

Here in the US, we have a number of IMR Powder loads that can be kept under 7000 psi. I don't know what pressure levels your gun is proofed for, but it is always a good idea to keep pressures lower on those gun from the early part of the century. Let us know.

Fred


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 Post subject: re: Reloading data for 2 1/2" 12 gauge drilling
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Sweden
Wow, here was a full load of help in just one night :D

About the gun.
[quote=Burnt Powder]I'm assuming it has barrels that are not Damascus or twist steel, but Krupp steel barrels.Very good barrels, even the early ones. I would, however; keep it on the mild side, which I'm sure is your intent. Shoot it, have fun, but don't ruin it.[/quote]
t is normal barrels and not damascus or twisted. If it is Krupp steel I dont know as the gun is not at home right now.
And yes I will take care. It is a way to nice gun to destroy.
[quote=Fred Willis]One thing I would consider was keeping the pressures down as you are dealing with wood that is over 80 years old.[/quote]
Alas no!, unfortunately it is not the original stock on the gun, is has been replaces at some time. I'm just a little disapointed on the bloke that did the work, he could have made a better work, and choosen a better piece of wood also.
He even had the receive blued!!!! :shock: :twisted: :evil:
A new stock is in the long time plans, but it will cost me some $1000-1300 or so, so it will have to wait.

The reloading press will for now be a Lee Load All 2, that I have obtained at a really good price. For the future a MEC 600 or Steelmaster might be the choice but not now unless the Lee is a total waste of space.
Powders that i have within reach is ofcause Vihtavuori. and we also have a supplier of Alliant, IMR and Hodgdon, but exactly which powders from these I dont know today.

I am very open to which wads to use, plastic, felt, cork, dont matter. I might even want to use all kinds to get the choke I like.
DL Marcum> What is a w/w wad, excuse a maybe stupid newbe question :wink:

Burnt Powder> So if I understand you right, it is OK, atleast for mild loads, to shorten the wad 1/4" and use the same load?
For card and felt wads I suspect that I have to use a thinner felt wad. And for plastic wads I can shorten them at the top.
Ofcause I have to change no other part in the cartridge.


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 Post subject: re: Reloading data for 2 1/2" 12 gauge drilling
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:06 pm 
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Location: Tucson, AZ
Beautiful gun. You can easily reload 2 1/2" shells as noted, or buy them at places like www.polywad.com Enjoy!

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 Post subject: re: Reloading data for 2 1/2" 12 gauge drilling
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:12 pm
Posts: 110
Honour,

For what it's worth, please be aware that with the Lee LoadAll2, you may have to shorten the plastic tubes that contain the crimp starter and crimp finisher in order to crimp the shorter hulls. I did this a few years ago when I was experimenting with 2" hulls. It is easy to shorten the tubes with a hacksaw and clean it up with a file. You may not need to do this for 2 1/2" shells, I'm not sure, but if you can't get a crimp try it.

SSB

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 Post subject: re: Reloading data for 2 1/2" 12 gauge drilling
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:51 pm
Posts: 363
Nice gun.

I load a bunch of 2 and 2.5" shells.

I Roll Crimp mine and to keep the pressures low I use PB powder. I can't find the manual right now (ol' lady must have hid it) so I can't tell you psi but I blieve they are close to 6K.

Using older guns and having true chokes I also use the gas seal wad.

For 2.5" hulls you can trim hulls very easily with a wooden dowel and exacto, pocket or utility knife.

I have used numerous makes of Roll heads, not in all gauges, but I believe Precision reloading to have the best. Beings that you are across the pond look for a Roll head that has the "dimples" or cuts and not one that has the "Bar". These are located in the the indentions of the head where the mouth of the hull goes.

You could use the Lee to do everything and then Roll crimp it.

I like RTO(roll crimp) because of the flexibility of it. I can Load between 2 and 3.5" shells.

Good luck and if you have any questions please feel free to ask.

PS. just found one source of loads in the PR book. Has 2.5 and 2" data for both RTO and Fold. Using universal clays, int clays, 700x, red dot and green dot.

I'm looking for the BP data. Favorite dang book to...... if I don't find it soon there'll be "Hell to Pay". Just kidding, I'll just keep looking.




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