Finally got around to building a rifled 410 slug gun. I started out with a Brno 222 single shot. I had a preimun Douglas 405 Winchester bbl. laying around ,so i said 411 groove, why not?. I got it ready to shoot today, hope to get to the range tommorrow and try it out. Will start testing loads next week. I leaning towards 210 gr 41 mag bullet. Will try some factory loads tommorrow. I have a 4x12 Bushnell laying around i am going to try on it. Will keep you posted. Rich
Man,,, I haven't been this excited since I went
out-on-my-first-DATE !! I can smell a mass production line???
PLEASE KEEP US POSTED WITH THE OUTCOME,,,
Very cool project...What you have is a shotgun version of a similar Smokeless Muzzleloader that many of my friends are working with. In their case, they have gotten rid of the pesky sabot (and all it's inherrent difficulties) and went directly to a Sabotless Smokeless Muzzleloader in .45 caliber!
Raz i just got it barreled up yesterday. Being single shot i can exreriment with different loads. Will be trying for hotest safe load in plastic and brass cases. Waiting on some cases, want winchester cases as they are one piece. Will be trying pistol bullets as well as 405 win. slugs. Its on a very strong action. It weighs 5.8 lb with out scope. I will use this gun to exreriment with loads then most likely sell it if it works out then build a double. The reamed i have has a very short forcing cone, have never believed a forcing to be much of a problem in a slug gun. You can get tight groops at fifty yds. so why not 100, the problem lies with sabos, non precision slugs, and to short of slug per length (bc ). Look at revolvers they not only have forcing cones but a gap between bbl. and chamber, they work ok. Will be trying out some loads next week , will keep you posted. Rich
Awesome. A while back I started a thread about the .410 FH.
Since they are leagal in Ohio, it would seem to be the perfect ticket. In the woods is your longest shot even going to be 30 yards. Amped up a bit it would certainly reach and without out any potential sabot issues. How about being able to use plain cast bullets too.
I am ordering ammo now, am going to blow out some 9.3x74 cases, might have to put a band around the first 1/2 in of the case mouth and fire form to make it heavyer . First i am going to play with plastic cases(ww 1 piece body.) to see what they will take. The gun i am using was a rifle . small firing pin, 3/4 in. under lug, its a good strong action. Rich
I am ordering ammo now, am going to blow out some 9.3x74 cases, might have to put a band around the first 1/2 in of the case mouth and fire form to make it heavyer . First i am going to play with plastic cases(ww 1 piece body.) to see what they will take. The gun i am using was a rifle . small firing pin, 3/4 in. under lug, its a good strong action. Rich
Sounds good, Rich! Are you going to use jacketed bullets or lead? I also think you could also use .30-40 Kraig cases as well but not sure on this. Keep us posted, Please!
Hoosier , The 30-40 cases would be to short, would be ok in 2 1/2 in chamber then you can use 444 brass. I am going to try 41 mag pistol bullets in plastic and brass case. If every thing works out i might try some 300 grain 405 win. bullets and maybe some 300 gr Barnes x shortened to 250 gr, lots of possabalitys. Rich
Question: If your using a rifled barrel and brass cases, 444Marlin, 303 British, whatever and jacketed bullets do you really still have a shotgun? Or just a wildcat 41 caliber rifle?
Not a big deal but I would hate to be hunting deer here in Ohio with it where the 410 is legal for deer but rifles are not and try to convince a game warden that I am hunting with a 410 slug gun. Never mind that all my ammo sure looks like 444Marlin loads and my gun has conventionally rifled rifle barrel. I don't think and Ohio game warden would buy it.
Question: If your using a rifled barrel and brass cases, 444Marlin, 303 British, whatever and jacketed bullets do you really still have a shotgun? Or just a wildcat 41 caliber rifle?
Not a big deal but I would hate to be hunting deer here in Ohio with it where the 410 is legal for deer but rifles are not and try to convince a game warden that I am hunting with a 410 slug gun. Never mind that all my ammo sure looks like 444Marlin loads and my gun has conventionally rifled rifle barrel. I don't think and Ohio game warden would buy it.
The gun is chambered with a 410 reamer and will be marked (410 3 in slug) If it chamberes a 410 and is marded a 410 its a 410. They also make 410 brass shotgun shells. You can take a 12 gauge and load brass shells on plastic shells with a sabo and 50 cal. bullet but its still a shotgun. Yes it could be considered a 41 wildcat, you can load 41 pistol bullets in plastic 410 case but they won't shoot in a smooth bore. This is a rifled 410 use what ever case you want, More power, more range, confusing yes thats the whole idea. Rich
Question: If your using a rifled barrel and brass cases, 444Marlin, 303 British, whatever and jacketed bullets do you really still have a shotgun? Or just a wildcat 41 caliber rifle?
Not a big deal but I would hate to be hunting deer here in Ohio with it where the 410 is legal for deer but rifles are not and try to convince a game warden that I am hunting with a 410 slug gun. Never mind that all my ammo sure looks like 444Marlin loads and my gun has conventionally rifled rifle barrel. I don't think and Ohio game warden would buy it.
The gun is chambered with a 410 reamer and will be marked (410 3 in slug) If it chamberes a 410 and is marded a 410 its a 410. They also make 410 brass shotgun shells. You can take a 12 gauge and load brass shells on plastic shells with a sabo and 50 cal. bullet but its still a shotgun. Yes it could be considered a 41 wildcat, you can load 41 pistol bullets in plastic 410 case but they won't shoot in a smooth bore. This is a rifled 410 use what ever case you want, More power, more range, confusing yes thats the whole idea. Rich
I would use BIG BOLD letter when you stamp 410 slug gun on that barrel. :lol: This has always been of interest to me as there is very little to distinguish a rifled shotgun from a rifle. As you have already pointed out all brass shotgun shell have existed for a long time. And recently you can get rifle ammunition that is constructed more like a modern shotgun shell. Brass base with a polymer case similar to a shotshell but its actually a 5.56X45 cartridge. The line between rifle and shotgun is fuzzy at best if we allow rifled shotguns into the mix.
The whole idea is to make the 410 god enough to be used as a deer rifle and to increase the accuracy and to extend the range to 150 or 200 yds with out trying to guess where the slug will hit. the 410 as is makes for a poor deer gun. notice i said gun not the R word. Don't want to stir up the Game Warden. Rich
The whole idea is to make the 410 god enough to be used as a deer rifle and to increase the accuracy and to extend the range to 150 or 200 yds with out trying to guess where the slug will hit. the 410 as is makes for a poor deer gun. notice i said gun not the R word. Don't want to stir up the Game Warden. Rich
I believe it would be legal especially if the bullet is not seated outside the case like a rifle round. Might also try using a smaller diameter bullet like a .357" to .400" in a sabot. Anyway your project sounds very interesting! <Good>
The whole idea is to make the 410 god enough to be used as a deer rifle and to increase the accuracy and to extend the range to 150 or 200 yds with out trying to guess where the slug will hit. the 410 as is makes for a poor deer gun. notice i said gun not the R word. Don't want to stir up the Game Warden. Rich
I believe it would be legal especially if the bullet is not seated outside the case like a rifle round. Might also try using a smaller diameter bullet like a .357" to .400" in a sabot. Anyway your project sounds very interesting! <Good>
I think you are getting the idea,thats why the long case, the case acts like the throat or free bore of the bbl. I would not crimp, if so only enough to make feeding possable through a pump or bolt. I have to work out the crimp and bullet pull after i do some loading. Rich
The fuzziness ends where the gun can chamber and safely fire a shotgun shell.
A member in the ASSA forum also recently indicated the other test of whether it is a shotgun or rifle is if it uses shotgun or rifle primers. I have not checked into it further.
But, it would only matter if it was over .50 as it could be construed as a destructive device. With the .410 case it does not.
The fuzziness ends where the gun can chamber and safely fire a shotgun shell.
A member in the ASSA forum also recently indicated the other test of whether it is a shotgun or rifle is if it uses shotgun or rifle primers. I have not checked into it further.
But, it would only matter if it was over .50 as it could be construed as a destructive device. With the .410 case it does not.
I dont think that has any thing to do with it(the primer that is) because factory loaded brass shotgun shells are not loaded with shot gun primers, they use pistol or rifle primers. A case in point is Ed Hubels shotgun from Hell. I believe Ed stated somewhere that he had a letter from A T F stating that it had to chamber and fire the shotgun shell in question. Rich
"Rifled barrels for shotguns are an unusual legal issue in the United States of America. Firearms with rifled barrels are designed to fire single projectiles, and a firearm that is designed to fire a single projectile with a diameter greater than .50 caliber (0.5 inch, or 12.7 mm) is considered a "destructive device" and as such is severely restricted. The ATF has ruled that as long as the gun was designed to fire shot, and modified (by the user or the manufacturer) to fire single projectiles with the addition of a rifled barrel, then the firearm is still considered a shotgun and not a destructive device."
The ATF doesn't come in to play here its less than 50 cal. I think this all got started over whether a game warden would find it legal. He would have to as it a 410 chambered rifled slug bbl. same as a20 or 12 gauge. Some one stated it might be considered a wildcat rifle ctg by the game commision and would be ilegal if that were the case so would a 20 and a 12 gauge. the problem doesn't exist. Rich
I agree with rshow. At least in Ohio there is no ballistic performance requirement, so handloaders are free to load light loads or whatever so long as the gun is "chambered" to a legal cartridge.
...And at the moment .410 is legal.
As far as the primer, I have not looked into it deeper since I do not own any FH shotguns or reload. I am always interested however, in preventing black pajama parties (ATF) at my house at 0430. My boss would froen on that.
Weather supposed to let up this weekend will go to the range. According to the UPS tracking # my shells are on the truck for delivery today. I ordered some 2 1/2 in Rem. slugs, 2 1/2 in tripple 000 buck (3 pellets), some 3 in Brenneke slugs 1/4 oz., some3 in WW 1/4 oz. and some WW 3 in tripple 000 buck (5 pellets), the 9.3 x 74 R cases are out of stock, will have to call around and locate some. Won't set up crono. this weekend To sloppy) but will crono . the loads when i get some brass next week. I am looking hard at imr 4198 for pistol bullets in plastic cases and 4350 and 4831 in the brass to keep pressure down. Will have some targets Sunday if all goes as planned. Will post some pics. Rich
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