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 Post subject: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:03 pm 
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Will the gun blow or will the slug get squeezed out? :shock:




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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:44 pm 
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Skeetnut asked: "Will the gun blow or will the slug get squeezed out? "


The answer is "Neither". Since the diameter of the slug is smaller than a standard full choke, it will neither blow the gun or get squeezed out. It will simply exit the larger hole. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:02 pm 
Hey it is usually said that it is alrigth to shoot a slug out a barrel with a "fixed" full choke. But it is not the best on the choke tube if you shoto a slug out of a barrel with a choked full.


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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:55 am 
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Absolutely nothing will happen other than the slug will exit the barrel...

The reasoning (in most peoples minds and instances) is that the tightly choked barrel will not have optimum accuracy shooting slugs...Foster type rifled slugs 'seem' to prefer MOD chokes and more open for the greatest accuracy and consistancy...

Uncountable slugs have been fired from FULL choked barrels without any trouble or problems...

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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:11 am 
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Thanks Folks! :)
For some reason I thought the slug was cylinder size and needed a slug barrel. The thought crossed my mind that it would be too easy to put a slug cartridge into a choked gun.
So this also means that if you have a cylinder barrel, the slug will have a sloppy ride in the tube.

George


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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:41 am 
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Slugs have a hollow base, and are relatively thin along the sides. Since they are soft lead, the gas pressure behind the slug expands them to fit the bore, forming a seal. The reason that full chokes generally give poorer accuracy than more open chokes is that they force the skirt of the slug to squeeze back down as it passes the choke. This usually is not a perfectly even process, and it can tilt the slug slightly just as it exits the barrel. Since it is nose-heavy, it will correct itself, but the upset as it leaves the barrel will cause larger froups. The more open the choke, the better the slug performs. Dedicated slug barrels are cylinder bore (no choke).


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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:19 am 
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I believe if you cut a slug cartridge open you will see that the slug sits on top of a wad column. It is usually a felt and cardboard or plastic wad column; none-the-less there is a gas seal well below the slug and that hollow cavity in the base of a Foster type slug never sees any gas pressure let alone chamber pressures. The base of the slug certainly does not expand to barrel diameter.

Forster slugs are design that way not as a gas seal similar to the Civil War era maxi-ball but as a way to stabilize the slug in flight when coming from a non-rifled barrel. The nose heavy with relative thin light sides and hollow base lets the slug fly like a badminton shuttlecock. A Foster slug is drag stabilized, not spin stabilized. Although if you do manage a little spin will the angled fins (it is arguable if those impart any spin at all) or a rifled barrel it usually helps as long as you don't spin them to fast.


Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:08 pm 
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I don't think that I would recommend putting a forster style slug through a poly-choke set on full...Do you guys think that a full choke transfers more recoil back to the shooter when forsters are used?


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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:55 am 
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Um...

<b>"I don't think that I would recommend putting a forster style slug through a poly-choke set on full"</b>

I would not even consider doing this if I was planning on using a polychoke...Just open it to Improved or all the way to Cylinder...

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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:04 am 
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I have a full choke in my hand a slug from a lee mold will not drop through it. not by a long shot. That frankly scares me enough to not use the full choke. The imp. cylinder choke allows it to drop right though. i would think that would be the one I would want from the two I have. I would like to try a rifled choke.


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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:21 am 
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The "rifling" on a standard Foster slug -- soft lead ribs -- is designed to deform first if the choke is smaller than the slug diameter. A little contact is good.

At least a couple of slug manufacturers reccommend an IC choke for best slug accuracy with a smoothbore.


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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:42 am 
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I used to debate this same thing with my fatherinlaw before he passed. He swore somebody(one of his grandkids) had shot the choke out his 1100, by shooting slugs through it. Never could any of us convince him otherwise.

HWD

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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:12 am 
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WYN, The proper setting of a Poly-Choke when shooting a Foster type slug is marked on the device as "SLUG".

Loogaroo, Are you looking at a Lee Key Drive slug, #90281 or #90282? What does the slug measure?

In general, all factory Foster type lead slugs are safe to shoot in any fixed full choked barrel. Poor accuracy may be experienced with a full choked barrel or an overbored barrel. The best accuracy is usually found with a fully rifled barrel and sabot type slugs or Dixie type slugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:46 pm 
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As long as the slug is lead or lead alloy it will pass through the choke. Putting my money where my mouth is, my favorite shotgun, a Browning Citori 20 made in 1975 and choked full and extra full has shot several hundred lead slugs of the Foster and Brenneke type with no ill effect. I have also put a lot of lead ones through a variety of 410s and my hand built 12 gauge SXS which is choked half and full.

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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:18 pm 
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It's worth noting that round balls need to be smaller than choke diameter, which means that they should be considerably under bore diameter. "One gauge smaller is the usual recommendation.

I think a lot of the confusion about slugs and chokes might arise from round balls needing to be undersized, despite the fact that round ball loads haven't been commercially available for decades.


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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:25 pm 
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Shotgun slugs:

Foster slugs, aka rifled slugs are nothing more than soft lead thimbles. Only the thin "skirt" area is standard bore size (nominal .730) and will swage down through any modern full choke (nominal .690 - .695)

Breneke style slugs have deep "fins" to compress through a full choke. This type of slug is usually made of a slightly harder alloy.

Single round ball loads are again being commercially manufactured, usually with a soft lead .65 caliber ball centered inside a ribbed plastic wad - again ok through full choke guns.

Sabot Slugs, are for rifled barrels.

Full Bore, Hard Cast, Heat Treated maximum penetration slugs, such as those manufactured by Dixie Slugs, (a sponsor on the reloading portion of this forum), are restricted to rifled barrels and in some specific cases to smooth cylinder bore (.730) barrels . Do Not fire any Full Bore Hard Cast slug through a choke constricted barrel.

Soft lead foster style shotgun slugs will flatten out or fragment on impact and seldom give the penetration needed on on larger/tougher game.

Buckshot:

Small buckshot, such as 000B (.345 - .350"), as commercially loaded can safely be fired through extra full chokes without problems. Depending on the load used Modified to full chokes deliver the tightest patterns.

Large buckshot ammo: Dixie 12 gauge Tri-Ball loads contain three .60 caliber hard cast pellets with buffer in a steel shot type wad. These are safe down to .660 chokes, but pattern best from improved modified (nominal .705) to extra full ( .675 - .680) chokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:58 pm 
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RMc, Good post. You covered about everything. Most English choked shotguns are marked "NOT FOR BALL". This has nothing to do taking the gun to a fancy dance, bye the way. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:54 am 
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One noe re sabot slugs. In Europe we have the Sauvestre, which is hellishly expensive, but gives excellent results in smoothbore barrels. I have put a lot of those through choked barrels, but the best results were from an improved cylinder.

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 Post subject: Re: Slugs through a Full Choke Barrel
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:19 am 
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A5guy wrote:
RMc, Good post. You covered about everything. Most English choked shotguns are marked "NOT FOR BALL". This has nothing to do taking the gun to a fancy dance, bye the way. :D


The "NOT FOR BALL" marking goes back to the late 19th century. With the advent of choke boring, some British firms continued to make what were essentially "smoothbore rifles." These were made with folding sights and could fire a bore size ball with good accuracy and were still usable with shot loads at short range. Unlike the American approach of loading undersized balls for all shotguns, the British began marking choke bore guns as "Not For Ball"

Today, the advent of polymer/plastic shot cups, (that act much like a sabot), allow the use of an undersize ball while remaining safe and reasonably accurate in choke bore guns.




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