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 Post subject: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:24 pm 
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i was wondering if anyone can tell me how much PSI a regular shotgun barrel can take thanks.


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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:35 pm 
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Location: Salt Lake. Unless I'm off shooting....
PSI as regarding loads and shells and shooting and such is generally a chamber issue, not a barrel one. The chamber will let go and take other things with it.

12000 psi is generally considered to be the safe workable ceiling for a chamber in a modern shotgun. Can it take more than that? Sure. Is it a good idea to exceed the recommendations of the people who make the guns and ammo and run all the safety tests, all in the hope of keeping your head and arms attached to your body? Probably not.

Things are different with older guns made with different materials and manufacturing techniques from those used today.

Be wise and be safe!

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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:08 pm 
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Ditto to MRPOWER


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 Post subject: Re: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:28 pm 
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JOHN_CK wrote:
i was wondering if anyone can tell me how much PSI a regular shotgun barrel can take thanks.


I believe it differs between gauges, as far as what their max chamber pressure is. I believe 11,500 is the safe max for 2 3/4" chambered 12 ga. guns. Look at some of the recipes for the smaller gauge guns (like the 28 and .410) and you'll see published recipes that are up over 12,000 psi.

When I reload, I look for recipes no higher than 10,500 psi.

Michael


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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:18 pm 
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Here is a link to SAAMI pressures, shotguns at the bottom, http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

Most shotgun barrel manufacturers seek 1.5 times the SAAMI levels for a safety margin.

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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:58 pm 
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About ten years ago, a man named Oscar Gaddy was on the Doubleguns.com BB and was a master barrelsmith, mainly for old damascus barrels. Oscar Gaddy said over and over:

The maximum average service pressure should not exceed 10,000 p.s.i. That's hot, by the way. In other words, the ammo companies test their shells so they never average over 10,000 p.s.i. Most are even less.

The maxium SAAMI pressure limit is 11,500 for all but 3 inch shells in 12 gauge.

Proof loads are usually 15,000 p.s.i., which is about one and a half times the average maxium service pressure.

A good gun really should be proved at 20,000 p.s.i., or twice the average maxium service pressure.

A good gun should finally have a catastrophic failure (blow up) at no less than 30,000 p.s.i., and even then it should not turn into a grenade and throw pieces of barrel everywhere, but instead bulge, rip, and tear. It will almost always fail, in a double gun, at the place where the extractor cuts are.

Good, sound, high quality damascus barrels that are still in excellent condition will in fact stand Gaddy's double proof test and not fail until three times the average max service pressure, or 30,000 p.s.i. A man named Sherman Bell has shown this by testing reported in the Double Gun Journal. But, don't shoot modern high pressure loads in damascus barrels anyway. They were designed for maximum average service pressures of only about 6,000 p.s.i. So were all those really old "compressed steel" barrels. The SAAMI pressure standards of 11,500 didn't come around until the 1920's and if you shoot modern shells, which are easy 8,000 p.s.i., and may be 10,000 p.s.i. average, it works on the locks and bolts and stock of those old beatiful double guns. The same holds true for heavy loads of shot. Those don't necessarily make more pressure, but they do kick your pretty old double gun to an early death, not to mention you.


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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:16 pm 
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thanks for all the help the reason i was asking is because i bought some remington and brenneke slugs that say MAX 1050 BAR on them which translates to 15,000 psi and the shotgun i have was made between 1945 and 1965


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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:47 pm 
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I know nothing about slugs, but did you buy them to be loaded or are these loaded rounds?

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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:56 pm 
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i bought them ready to shoot from remington and brenneke.


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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:51 pm 
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I can't find a picture of a box of them, but I can't see them producing a shell that produces 15K, just too big a liability.

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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:46 pm 
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one bar is 14.5037 P.S.I. so 1050 bar is 15,228.885 psi i dont know if trere trying to say thats the highest the pressure can get from the shell.


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 Post subject: Re: re: pressure
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:38 am 
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JOHN_CK wrote:
thanks for all the help the reason i was asking is because i bought some remington and brenneke slugs that say MAX 1050 BAR on them which translates to 15,000 psi and the shotgun i have was made between 1945 and 1965


MAX 1050 BAR mark means that those shell comform to CIP standards for magnum ammunition in that they will not exceed maximum service pressure of 1050 BAR. These shell are to be fired from a magnum proof shotgun which 1370 BAR per CIP standards. CIP maximum service pressures are 75% of proof. So if you've a CIP magnum proof gun them you are assured that when you pull the trigger the gun and you should still be operational after detonation. It's a good system. Both ammunition and guns are test and marked for the intended use and provide a standard for consumer protection.

I'll guess that your shotgun is American made. Contact the manufacture to see if the gun meets SAAMI specs and contact Remington to see if the slugs also meets SAAMI specs.


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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:26 am 
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 11:43 pm
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thanks for the info its greatly appreciated


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 Post subject: re: pressure
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:37 pm 
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Location: South Africa, Canada
I recently bought some TM sheels frm Kent and was impressed by the velocities they advertise with heavy loads in 12ga 2 3/4" shells.

I emailed them to enquire about pressures (I have been under the impression that 12 ga commercial ammo runs below 10 500psi)

1 1/4Oz. @ 1400fps load pushes 9 900 psi

1 3/8Oz. @ 1375 load pushes 11 400 psi...thats more than I thought.

Just shows what commerical lods wil rate ITO chamber pressures!


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 Post subject: Re: re: pressure
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:04 pm 
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kayaker wrote:
I recently bought some TM sheels frm Kent and was impressed by the velocities they advertise with heavy loads in 12ga 2 3/4" shells.

I emailed them to enquire about pressures (I have been under the impression that 12 ga commercial ammo runs below 10 500psi)

1 1/4Oz. @ 1400fps load pushes 9 900 psi

1 3/8Oz. @ 1375 load pushes 11 400 psi...thats more than I thought.

Just shows what commerical lods wil rate ITO chamber pressures!


Thanks for the data. I, too, am surprised at the difference in pressure. This helps answer (at least in my mind) why the 1-1/4oz load tended to pattern better than the 1-3/8oz load in my tests.

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