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 Post subject: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:37 pm 
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Location: On the range, hopefully.
Dear Forum:

I am having a problem with an SW series PAT automatic trap with the doubles finger. The turret which holds the clays will not rotate. When a clay is placed before the arm, it throws it very well. However, the turret will not index and drop additional clays. The wiring appears to be correct. It seems as if the clutch under the turret is not engaging.

When the clutch is turned by hand, the clays drop as they should.

Is anyone familiar with PAT traps? Has anyone had this problem?

Thank you in advance,
Elliott




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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:20 pm 
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Have had the problem, but my memory fails me right now, it was pretty simple anyway. Let me ramble a bit.

First off, I don't know just what model ours is. Don't have the book at home with me. Will be at the club tomorrow evening.

We have had a number of small problems, at first perplexing, but they all turned out to be simple when we either figured it out, or called the pallet, yes, pallet Company. That is who makes or services them. They are always very helpful and you get someone who knows what they are talking about. Like I said, all the books and phone numbers and the exact company name is at the club.

One of our simple problems that at first seemed like it was going to be something serious, was as simple as low fluid in the hydraulic system. Is yours hydraulic?

I do remember that we thought we had lost or burned up the clutch, but it turned out to be very much simpler, (and cheaper), than that. At that time, we had to take the whole turret off, and if I remember right, we changed out a switch under it.

DO NOT turn the turret itself by hand, turning it with the clutch by hand is OK.

PM me with a phone # and I will call you tomorrow evening from the club with more info, if you haven't got it figured out, or I will give you mine in return and you can call me. I will do a little checking in the early evening, and confer with the guy who teemed with me to get it fixed at that time.

Clyde


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:20 pm 
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http://www.pattrap.com/manual.html

Not familiar with your trap machine but hopefully the link will help.

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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:46 pm 
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Thanks Big Shooter. Now having looked over the diagrams, I am pretty sure that ours is a SW as well.

I remember changing out and adjusting that #4 micro switch under the turret. Pretty much takes two guys to accomplish that task, (removing and reinstalling the turret), although one who knew exactly what he was doing might be able to do it.

We went through all the steps of setting that switch, with the feeler gage, etc. I seem to remember ending up, "eyballing" the 1/8 gap, since it was a bit hard to get to. It wasn't the clutch, like we had at first thought. Worked just fine and has since, other than the fluid problem.

Clyde


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:51 am 
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Thanks, Clyde and Big Shooter! I do have the manual, but I am not sure whether I will be able to get any support from the pallet company (we are taking over from a defunct trap club). This trap is very different than the completely manual versions that I usually use.

The trap is hydraulic, and I have not checked the fluid. I will do so. I have checked switches, but I might not be looking at the right thing.

I appreciate the offer of assistance, Clyde, and I will PM you as soon as I figure out how to do it.

Thanks again,
Elliott


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:38 am 
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Hi Elliot!

The switch that gave us the "clutch" problem was the #4 micro switch under the turret. Very hard to get to with out removing the turret itself. Not sure whether it can be checked without the turret removal.

If you can't hit the PM button at the bottom of this page, e-mail me at XXXXtenbore @ yahoo.comXXXX no breaks, no X's

Perfectly willing to call you, or if you don't want, then you can call me.

I am sure that the company will work with you, I just won't have the phone number until early this evening. Unless I make a special 60 mile round trip. Wish I lived closer!

Clyde


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:52 am 
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603-428-3396, Hennikier, NH.

Give them a call. I am sure they will be very helpful.

Clyde


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:37 pm 
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Using an ohm meter will allow you to check and set the switch under the turret. Pat has a new style you should get. It is a big improvement over the magnet. Also, check (#3?) behind and under the turret.

Once again, trying to diagnose the machine without an ohm meter is an exercise in futility.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 10:09 pm 
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Location: On the range, hopefully.
Dear Mr. Wall:

Thank you for the input! Diagnosing this problem has been difficult. I apologize for the basic question, but what should I be looking for as a reading on the ohm meter? Is there a range or am I looking for 0/infinity?

We did evict a mouse from the turret, which I think is a step in the right direction.

Thanks to all,
Elliott


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 10:21 pm 
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Dear Elliot

First off, locate the switches and veryfy that the wiring and connectors are in good shape and that the wire nuts on the switches and the switches themselves are tight and in good repair.

The magnetic switches will be on (less than 1 Ohm resistance) or off ( a very high or infinite resistance). With machine off, decocked and unplugged, put a piece of metal near the switch with the switch disconnected and the meter hooked up. Some of them are normally off, some are normally on. After you see how the switches work, then everything makes sense. You can then check the switches in their normal position. The switch behind and below the turret (#3?) is bad about the retaining screws getting loose or lost and then the switch gets out of position and does not work. Some of the switches will have red leads, some black. Do not mix them up or you will have fun figuring it out!

Replace the switch under the turret with the roller switch, available from Pat, and use the ohm meter to verify proper setting. When these switches are properly hooked up and operative, the older machines are very reliable.

BTW, several strips of Bounce (yeah, the stuff you put in the clothes dryer) will keep critters and varmeints out of the machines. Just replace them quarterly and do not be stingy with them. They are also good about keeping wasps out of traphouses.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:39 am 
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Location: On the range, hopefully.
Thanks, John for all of your advice. Is there an easy way to remove the turret to access No. 3 and No. 4? Also, what constitutes "decocked" with regard to this trap. I am clear on manual traps, but this trap always seems to have tension on the arm.

Thanks again,
Elliott


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:52 am 
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Elliott, you say it throws clays OK. To decock, turn it on, let it go to full cock, then hit the button to throw a bird and IMMEDIATELY shut the machine off. Decocked at that point. Then unplug it as JW says.

To remove the turret, remove all birds and with a helper, just carefully lift it straight up and off of the shaft. Might take a look at how it lines up, so you can put it back the same, easier than finding that out when reinstalling it. (Easier with two guys, just have to go slow and keep it even.)

Have you not called Pat Trap, back in NH? I think the main guy answers the phone and is VERY helpful. I highly recommend doing that. With the serial number, etc, he can help you out with trouble shooting and what might be good updates and such. As long as you are working on it, now is the time. Their prices are not bad, either and service is fast. I actually got the parts and the check passed them in the mail.

While you have the turret off, do a general cleanup and maintenance. Much easier to get to! Grease the fittings, etc. etc. Check the hydraulic pump, and top it off.

Clyde


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:40 pm
Posts: 248
Location: On the range, hopefully.
Dear Clyde:

Thanks again for the advice. I have not called Pat Traps yet because I have been working on the trap well after the close of business on the East Coast. Also, I am not yet familiar enough with the trap that I could call them during the day and understand their advice without having the machine in front of me. I am planning a daylight repair session and I will call them then.

I did check the pump, and it was low. I refilled it. I think that the problem is probably in switch no. 3 or 4.

Thanks again,
Elliott


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 Post subject: re: Problem with Pat Trap SW Series
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:19 pm 
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OK, glad it is progressing somewhat. That guy at Pat Trap is very good at trouble shooting over the phone, but being right at the trap would certainly make it easier.

The biggest problem with ours is that it does need topping off of the hydraulic reservoir from time to time. It just seems to seep a bit, from numerous places. Don't know if that is a machine problem or just general plumbing. The motor and pump are also located right under the table, making it a bit tough checking and filling the reservoir as well.

Ours has been under water, up to over the motor three times already this spring. (Good thing it is a sealed motor, but even then, it can't be good for it!) They laid out the trap house and its drainage system pretty poorly. I have banked dirt up around the house for the moment, it was prone to water standing in a puddle all around the house. I also dug a drainage ditch out to a lower level. (Found evidence of previous work, trying to solve the drainage problem some time back, while digging.) We also have installed a permanent sump pump now.

Good luck,
Clyde




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