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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:10 pm 
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Oh no.

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 Post subject: Re: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:17 am 
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000buck wrote:
Good post, I've read this report before.
This may sound odd to you guys, but I've always kept the #6 birdshot for home defense.
Buckshot won't even begin to open up in most homes, due to short hallways. Also, overpenetration should be a concern with slugs and buckshot(neighbors and family members). Shot and slugs will go through a house or two before stopping. Remember, you're not hunting water buffalo here(and your visibility will probably be limited due to darkness)
#6 causes alot of soft tissue damage with a nasty wound track.
Still not convinced, take your shotgun outside, hang up a target(or a jug of water) load up a shell of #6 and fire.
Complete devastation at close range. It gets even worse if your shotgun chambers a magnum load :shock:
I have nothing against buckshot, but using it in your home...almost seems the same as using a <a href="http://www.pistolworld.com">pistol</a> since it won't have the chance to expand. And since the home intruder is probably going to be closer than 35-50 yards, my odds of hitting him will be better


Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

I can't believe that after reading all this, that you would still defend the use of birdshot for defensive purposes. I have seen rabbits survive an initial dose of #6 birdshot.

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 Post subject: Re: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:57 am 
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000buck wrote:
#6 causes alot of soft tissue damage with a nasty wound track.


At the risk of casting pearls...

000, while what you say above is actually true, that "nasty wound track" is not nearly deep enough to hit vital organs, nor are the individual projectiles carrying enough velocity to reach the CNS. The wound, while appearing gruesome, will be shallow and (most importantly to the topic at hand) survivable.

As soon as the shot column exits the muzzle; each projectile, as a function of exterior and terminal ballistics, is its own entity. Translation, you have just shot (assuming a normal 1⅛ oz load of #6 shot from a 12 gauge) 253 pellets of .110 diameter lead moving at ~1300 FPS at a badguy. Each pellet weighs 0.0044 oz or 1.925 grains, which is less than ¼ of a normal .177 caliber pellet. 253/4 = 63.25

Imagine the wound that would be caused by shooting said bad guy 64 times (I’m being generous here) with an air rifle, and you have a good idea of the actual effect #6 birdshot will cause. He’s more likely to die of lead poisoning than tissue damage. There is a reason that waterfowlers use large shot and constricting chokes to kill small, light boned birds from 25-40 yards. The numbers have to add up to a likelihood of a kill.

Now add in that humans under stress and/or drug use have incredible amounts of adrenaline, norepinephrine, dopamine and endorphins in their bloodstream, all of which suppresses the pain impulses the body send to the brain. The only way to get a human to stop functioning under normal conditions, let alone such chemical influence, is to disrupt vital functions like breathing and heartbeat to shut off blood to the brain, or to shut down or interrupt the signals from the brain to the rest of the body.

Birdshot, even at close range, will not reliably reach vital organs or be able to penetrate the bones that most of our Central Nervous System (brain, spinal cord) is encased in. While there is the “golden BB” possibility, both exterior and terminal ballistics predict failure. In other words, using birdshot to try and stop an attacker is a really bad idea.

Quote:
Still not convinced, take your shotgun outside, hang up a target(or a jug of water) load up a shell of #6 and fire.


By all means, if you are being attacked by a jug of water, at close range, feel free to use #6. Unfortunately, a jug of water is not an adequate predictor of terminal ballistics. Neither are 55 gallon drums or cow skulls at 40 paces. :wink:

Quote:
I have nothing against buckshot, but using it in your home...almost seems the same as using a pisto1 since it won't have the chance to expand.


Actually, it would be closer to using musket balls, delivering 8-12 rounds of .30 cal or better projectiles at ~1200 FPS, which is right around pistol velocities. The difference being that the individual rounds arrive at approximately the same instant, and in fairly close proximity.

As an analog to the shooting a badguy with a BB gun, shooting him with buckshot is like shooting him with an old blackpowder revolver 8-12 times. Such an occurrence is more than adequate to reach vital organs and stop an attack given proper shot placement.

Quote:
And since the home intruder is probably going to be closer than 35-50 yards, my odds of hitting him will be better


Assuming the longest shot in your home is 50’, with any well-functioning shotgun, your pattern should be >16”. Not only is there a larger probability of error on your part due to your stress level, but the terminal effect of hitting said intruder with even ¾ of your shot is the equivalent of shooting him with an air rifle 48 times.

While it would be a very unpleasant experience for the perp, you, as a responsible homeowner and law-abiding gun owner justified in the use of deadly force to dispatch a badguy, owe it to yourself, your family, and the rest of society to stop that badguy NOW instead of wounding him with the distinct possibility of him continuing his criminal behavior.

If you have a shotgun for home defense, load buckshot or keep the gun in the safe.


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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:02 pm 
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this info in an excerpt taken from chuckhawks:
Two things to keep in mind about birdshot. The first is that birdshot is as lethal as buckshot at close range. Don't believe for a second that you can just wound someone with birdshot and he'll go on to live another day. If you aren't justified in killing a man, you aren't justified in wounding him, either. Never "shoot to wound." I once again direct you to read Ayoob's 'In the Gravest Extreme' and learn the truth.

This is an excerpt from another gov't wound ballistics study:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunke ... istics.htm

The second thing is that birdshot makes a lot of sense for home defense. I keep my home-defense 12 gauge loaded with two #4 birdshot rounds followed by 00 buck. Birdshot is much less likely to penetrate thin interior walls and kill innocent people on the other side, and has lower recoil than buckshot for faster follow-up shots (I live in a thin-walled apartment house, however - if I lived in a solid house with a lot of land around, I would definitely choose buckshot instead). The stopping power of birdshot should not be under-estimated: at ranges out to thirty feet or so, birdshot is virtually a solid column of lead. Choose any #4 or BB high brass lead hunting load. I like the Federal "Classic Lead Hi-Brass" #4 birdshot (HI26-4) and Winchester "Super-X" #4 high brass birdshot (X12-4), but there is little difference between the various choices. Buy whichever you please. If you're a bird hunter, use your favorite hunting shells as long as they are #6 or larger.

here is the complete link:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

Shotgun Wounds
distance from the victim is important factor in determining extent of tissue damage
There are multiple pellets of varying sizes and numbers. The larger the pellet the fewer number within the shell.
Size of the pellet is defined in gauge and not caliber. Size of the pellets range from dustshot® birdshot® buckshot® roundball. #6 buckshot is the most common shot.
Birdshot are very small pellets that can become emboli in vasculature
Can estimate the distance from the attacker by assessing the injury pattern. Diameter of the injury pattern X3= approx distance from the attacker in feet.
f . Effects of distance from the target:

< 2meters: Presence of wadding in the wound, deep penetration, entrance appears like a single projectile
3-6 meters: Shot charge still intact with few pellets that wander off the center point of damage. Penetration is deep.
Within 6 meters: tissue destruction similar to that of a high velocity missile. Massive tissue destruction. Pt injured by intact charge acting as a single projectile.
Greater than 6 meters: Wound caused by the spray of low velocity pellets acting as separate missiles with superficial damage.
00 Buckshot: contains 9 pellets in a shell and each is equivalent to a 22 caliber bullet with a velocity of 1000 ft/sec when fired at close range.
Birdshot produces major injuries only at close range. Buckshot may produce significant damage up to 150 yds.
Injury by the blast effect of the muzzle is evident at close range
muzzle blast: surge of hot air and gases that burst from the muzzle as the projectile exits which may cause serious injury or death at close range. Is also known as a powder blast (ex: inury seen by the blast from blank ammunition)
Magnum loads with shotguns: purpose of the extra powder is not to increase velocity but to allow more pellets to be used. So the mass of the missile can be increased without compromising the velocity.


I've done some work in various ER's, on kadavers and taken some med courses wherein I did research on wound effects from firearms on the torso and head. You chances of standing up, or even moving for that matter, after having been rocked by 12ga #4 birdshot(or anything from that caliber) under 6meters are next to nothing. Even the plastic wadding penetrates skin!
My point is, that at extreme ranges, it doesnt matter what you shoot them with-especially when dealing in 12ga.

The results, as posted above at close range are immediate and deadly with any shotgun ammo. Heck, those stupid "non-lethal" bean bags kill people all of the time.
I agree that buckshot is ultra-lethal but, that is the "double edge" to its' own sword. Why not just carry a .45 acp around the house if that's the power that you're looking for?
The pellets are not going to open up enough(in a normal size home) to make a diff


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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:36 pm 
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Two very interesting things about your reference material.
The first is that is by "Anonymous." Already feeling bad about this.
The second is that it states the following:
"This is a guide to help you select the best ammunition for your defensive firearm. Most of these opinions are based upon the work of Massad Ayoob, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow, police officers who have extensively studied the issue of firearms, ammunition and stopping power. I refer all interested parties to the excellent series by Ayoob ('In the Gravest Extreme,''Stressfire,' 'The Semi-Automatic Pistol in Police Service and Self-Defense', 'Stressfire II: Advanced Combat Shotgun') and the comprehensive book 'Stopping Power' by Marshall and Sanow."
I pretty much stopped reading right there.
ETA:
So as not to be accused of being closed-minded on this, I actually went back and read some of your referenced webdata.
Did you miss this part?
"Shotguns

Use buckshot. Slugs and birdshot are useful in some limited and uncommon situations."

And this:
"If you simply want to know the best defense load, go out and buy: 12 gauge 2 3/4" shell 00 buckshot. You shall live happily ever after, as this is the most effective man-stopping firearm cartridge yet devised by man. I recommend the Federal "Classic" (F127-00), Winchester Super-X (X12RB5) or Remington Buckshot (SP12BK-5PK00) as the best double-ought buckshot defense rounds. One of these rounds is virtually equal to a nine-round burst from a submachine gun, with every round hitting."

And:
"Many experienced shooters prefer #4 or #1 buckshot to 00. I really cannot argue, but Lt. Marshall is on record as stating that 00 is superior, both in penetration and stopping power."

Of course, the material contradicts itself in several points using the parts you posted, which seem to be the actual opinions of Anonymous as opposed to "the Ascended Master, Massad Ayoob" or Marshall and Sanow.

Quote:
The first is that birdshot is as lethal as buckshot at close range.

Not even close. It can be, but to make the absolute statement that it is as lethal is wrong.
Quote:
Don't believe for a second that you can just wound someone with birdshot and he'll go on to live another day.

I have no doubt that it can be as lethal, but there have been many people shot with birdshot that have gone on to live another day. In fact, many other days. Even if they do expire, how quickly will they do so? Buckshot gives me a much greater chance of making that time extremely short. Lethal four hours from now (or even four minutes) is not the same as right now. If I am using deadly force, I probably need it to be effective now, and with a high degree of certainty.

Quote:
This is an excerpt from another gov't wound ballistics study:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunke ... istics.htm

What is the source for that material? And I'm not overly impressed with a document that ties lethality to kinetic energy, doesn't understand what causes instability in terms of terminal ballistics, indicates that "[t]he more KE absorbed into tissue, the more damage occurs," and indicates that "#6 buck shot is the most common" pretty much loses a lot of credibility.

Quote:
The second thing is that birdshot makes a lot of sense for home defense. I keep my home-defense 12 gauge loaded with two #4 birdshot rounds followed by 00 buck.

Not only does birdshot make no sense, Dutch loads make even less sense.
Quote:
Birdshot is much less likely to penetrate thin interior walls and kill innocent people on the other side

It is also much less likely to kill the BG on this side of the wall.

Quote:
has lower recoil than buckshot for faster follow-up shots

Modern tac loads will do the same thing without sacrificing lethality.

Quote:
The stopping power of birdshot should not be under-estimated: at ranges out to thirty feet or so, birdshot is virtually a solid column of lead.

It most certainly does not. Not in terms of terminal ballistics, and not for long in terms of external ballistics. For that matter the shot are already starting to rattle around in the shot cup inside the barrel.

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Last edited by m24shooter on Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:08 pm 
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to much to risk with bird shot. I am not using something that MIGHT stop a home invader. I'll stay with my Hornady TAP 00 Buck.

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Last edited by Banshee on Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:27 am 
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I’m going to bow out of the debate with this:

Newgard, Ken, M.D.: "The Physiological Effects of Handgun Bullets: The Mechanisms of Wounding and Incapacitation." Wound Ballistics Review, 1(3): 12-17; 1992.

Quote:
This article examines the physiological mechanisms of the human body to provide a medical answer to the question: How many times is it necessary to shoot an assailant before he is incapacitated?

Newgard reviews the physiological mechanisms of gunshot wound trauma incapacitation:

"The only method of reliably stopping a human with a handgun is to decrease the functioning capability of the central nervous system (CNS) and specifically, the brain and cervical spinal cord. There are two ways to accomplish this goal: 1) direct trauma to the CNS tissue resulting in tissue destruction and 2) lack of oxygen to the brain caused by bleeding and loss of blood pressure."

Newgard discusses the body's blood loss sensory and compensatory mechanisms (venous constriction, increased cardiac output and vascular fluid transfer), and the degree in which these mechanisms respond to, and compensate for, hemorrhagic shock. He reviews clinical tests of human tolerance for blood loss, which "demonstrate that adequate blood pressure can be maintained with minimal symptoms until a 20% blood deficit was reached." Newgard provides the following example:

"For an average 70 kg (155 lb.) male the cardiac output will be 5.5 liters (~1.4 gallons) per minute. His blood volume will be 60 ml per kg (0.92 fl. oz. per lb.) or 4200 ml (~1.1 gallons). Assuming his cardiac output can double under stress (as his heart beats faster and with greater force). his aortic blood flow can reach 11 liters (~2.8 gallons) per minute. If one assumes a wound that totally severs the thoracic aorta, then it would take 4.6 seconds to lose 20% of his blood volume from one point of injury. This is the minimum time in which a person could lose 20% of his blood volume.... This analysis does not account for oxygen contained in the blood already perfusing the brain, that will keep the brain functioning for an even longer period of time.

"Most wounds will not bleed at this rate because: 1) bullets usually do not transect (completely sever) blood vessels, 2) as blood pressure falls, the bleeding slows, 3) surrounding tissue acts as a barrier to blood loss, 4) the bullet may only penetrate smaller blood vessels, 5) bullets can disrupt tissue without hitting any major blood vessels resulting in a slow ooze rather than rapid bleeding, and 6) the above mentioned compensatory mechanisms."

Newgard investigates the survival times of persons who received fatal gunshot wounds to determine if the person who was shot had enough time to shoot back. He concludes:

"Instantaneous incapacitation is not possible with non central nervous system wounds and does not always occur with central nervous system wounds. The intrinsic physiologic compensatory mechanisms of humans makes it difficult to inhibit a determined, aggressive person's activities until he has lost enough blood to cause hemorrhagic shock. The body's compensatory mechanisms designed to save a person's life after sustaining a bleeding wound, allow a person to continue to be a threat after receiving an eventually fatal wound, thus necessitating more rounds being fired in order to incapacitate or stop the assailant."

* italicized text added for clarity.


This above article analyzes the effects of a single projectile penetrating deep enough to transsect the Aeorta. If anyone belives that birdshot will be able to trump a .38-.45 caliber hole in someone's heart... :?

Any gun will do if you do, but it really helps when you haven’t tied one hand behind your own back by using ammunition inadequate to stop a threat.


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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:35 pm 
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WOW!!! I am changed man! I think that I am going to be selling my 9MM here soon. In accordance with most on this post, if there is someone in your home, (RIGHT NOW!) lethality is what is desired! A wounded man can still kill!! There is no such thing as being a nice guy when life, death, or protection of all you hold dear is at stake. Stone cold dead is always better than wounded. If the possibility of someone dying sickens you, then maybe you should consider another form of protection. These days are getting worse, not better, and as the old saying goes, "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!"

I'll be loading up my double ought here soon!

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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:41 pm 
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Figured Id add some of my own pics to the fray....

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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:50 pm 
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I was just looking to buy some #1 buckshot based on these results and came across the 3" version Winchester.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: XB1231
Gauge :12 GA
Type :Lead
Length :3"
Ounces :24 Pellets
Shot Size :1 Buck
Muzzle Velocity :1040 fps

It is slower than the 2-3/4" versions at 1040 vs. 1250 fps, but it packs another 8 pellets in there (24 vs. 16).

I'm currently loaded up with Remington #00 reduced recoil loads, but this seems like it might be a better choice yet for a home defense load to me... What do y'all think? 2-3/4" #00, 2-3/4" #1, or 3" #1 :?:


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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:37 pm 
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Welcome to the forum Funbobby.

I don't know how much that lower muzzle velocity is going to reduce penetration with the 3 in. magnum #1. You might have noticed in the original post that they tested a magnum #4 buck that did quite well, but I did a quick check (just one vendor) and they listed it as having a 1210 fps muzzle velocity despite being a big, heavy magnum load.

Otherwise, I like number one buck as an HD round. I think that based upon the data, it gives the best compromise between 1) effectiveness in stopping a threat (based upon adequate penetration and anticipated wound tract with the high cross sectional area of those relatively large pellets) and 2) risk of over penetration through walls et c. All of this assumes typical HD distances.

Based upon my current situation, I load my magazine so that the first three rounds are number one buck followed by 00. I keep 00 and slugs on the butt stock. The 00 and slugs are "just in case" I need greater penetration, or need to hit something at a greater distance than anticipated.

There are lots of opinions on this topic, but in general if you size up your situation, and pick the buckshot that best fits your needs, #4, #1, or #00, you should be OK. For me it would be #1 for short ranges when there are many concerns about over penetration, and 00 for longer distances when there are fewer concerns about over penetration being problem.

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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:23 am 
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Hey RJM, Thankjs for the Welcome and for your insights. Yes, I know there are a lot of viewpoints on these points, and virtually none of us have real world experience with defending our homes - Thank God! I got that 1040 FPS off the Winchester Ammo website, so I think that's probably a good number. I like you idea of having OO Buck available, JIC - I'll play with some combos and see what I like. Thanks again for your Welcome! Aloha! FB


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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:24 pm 
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I feel just fine now about the 250rds federal low recoil 00 buck I just bought that seemed to have about the same penetration as the full power loads..The temperary tear channel was a little larger with the faster pellets..
and learned there is a place for 3"mag slugs..
Like if you want to stop a big bear, or a car engine..

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 Post subject: re: 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:40 pm 
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This is good solid information, but generally known in some circles for some time.

Thats why some train for two to the body, one to the head (not shotgun). I know, I know, it hard to do but.....

Don't expect a attacker to just stop at being shot. I have known people that have been shot, and don't even remember it..except that later (due to drugs), they realize " oh **** Iv'e been shot !

EXPECT to fight to the end...when ever that actually is, not when you think it should be.

Pattern you shotguns at close AND medium ranges....know what it will do and what it won't.

I.E., a little training/practice time goes a very long way should the need ever arise...and practice from time to time.

Paul


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:50 pm 
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12 gauge wound Profiles: Example #1 Whitetail Deer A

ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION

Past this point are Graphic examples of damage caused by different shotgun rounds.

if you do not wish to view graphic images do not view past this point.


Whitetail Buck

Statistics

* Species: Whitetail Deer
* Sex: Male
* Approximate Weight: 250 lbs
* Season: Fall, 2004
* Round: 12 gauge 2? Remington Reduced Recoil Slug
* Shotgun: 12 gauge 14 inch barreled remington 870 police
* Shot Range: 70 yards
* Distance Travelled: Fell where hit
* Time from Shot to Expiry: Approximately 60 seconds
* Slug Recovery: No.
* Structures Damaged: Tail end of scapula, both lungs, spine.

Image


Image

A medium sized whitetail buck, shot at 70 yards with a 14 inch barreled remington 870 hurling 1 oz reduced recoil remington foster style slugs.

Image
Entrance wound.

Image
Entrance wound as exposed by skinning.

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The slug punched through the scapula and was deflected slightly upwards into the thorax of the deer.

Image
Closeup of the scapula damage.

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The slug deflected slightly while traveling through the scapula, entering the thorax at an angle and then rolling around the spine of the deer.

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Closeup of spinal column damage.

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Despite traveling high through the thorax, significant damage to the lungs was also inflicted.

Image
Exit wound.

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Exit wound as exposed during skinning. Slug is visible just underneith the skin.

Image
Comparison of the recovered slug to an unfired one.

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Last edited by montana bound on Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:50 pm 
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12 gauge wound Profiles: Example #2 Yearling Calf

Terminal Ballistics Library: Domestic Cow (Yearling Calf), 12 gauge Remington Reduced Recoil Slug

Statistics

* Species: Domestic Cow
* Sex: Female
* Approximate Weight: 500 lbs (yearling calf)
* Season: Fall, 2004
* Round: Remington Reduced Recoil Foster Style Slug
* Shotgun: Factory 14 inch barreled Remington 870.
* Shot Range: 10 yards
* Distance Travelled: N/A
* Time from Shot to Expiry: N/A - Slug Failed to inflict lethal wound
* Bullet Recovery: Yes.
* Structures Damaged: Skeleto-Musculature damage only.

Image

An intensely interesting and very sad case. This young cow had a severely injured rear leg. The rancher requested we shoot the animal, and we used the opportunity to test a remington reduced recoil slug. Approximately 1 minute after the animal was shot, it became evident that the slug had failed to inflict lethal damage. The animal was then quickly dispatched with an additional slug to the head.

Image

Having targeted the lower thorax of the calf, the slug impacted in the lower 1/3 area. It struck a rib and began to roll downwards between two ribs

Image

Closeup of the entrance wound.
Image

The slug rolled down between the two ribs, and made the bend at the bottom of the calf's brisket.
Image

Wound channel where the slug rolled around the corner.
Image

The slug then rolled up the opposite side, still between two ribs, exited the thorax and entered the far side leg.
Image

Another perspective on the backside slug roll.
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The slug was recovered on the backside of the calf, just underneath the skin after passing through the offside leg.
Image

This has to be about the strangest wound tract we have ever witnessed. The slug managed to roll around the thorax of the calf, completely missing any vital cardiovascular structures, yet a straight line drawn betweeen the point the slug entered and where the slug was found in the offside leg pass straight through the middle of the heart and both lungs.



Up until shooting this calf, we were highly endorsing Remington's Reduced Recoil Foster Style Slug as our dangerous animal load of choice. Our prior opinion had been based on two factors: the first was the inherent increased controlability of the the shotgun using reduced recoil loads (especially for smaller statured shooters). Second was the exceptional accuracy these slugs exhibited in pretty much all of our smoothbores. We reasoned that 5 to 7 lesser power hits were far better than the same number of higher power misses.

Based on our experience with this poor calf, we now don't recommend anything other than a Brenneke Slug for use in a dangerous animal situation. For more information about these slugs, please review our shotgun ordinance gelatin testing results.

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Last edited by montana bound on Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:52 pm 
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12 gauge wound Profiles: Example #3 Whitetail Deer B

Statistics

* Species: Whitetail Deer
* Sex: Male
* Approximate Weight: 200 lbs
* Season: Fall, 2003
* Round: Remington Reduced Recoil 12 gauge foster style slug
* Shotgun: Factory 14 inch barreled Remington 870
* Shot Range: 35 yards
* Distance Travelled: Fell Where Shot
* Time from Shot to Expiry: Approximately 10 seconds
* Bullet Recovery: No.
* Structures Damaged: Aorta, Spinal Column




Image

Still hunting along the bottoms of some willow-wooded draws, I gently bumped this whitetail buck from his day-bed. He was staring straight at me as the shotgun slowly came up, and fell immediately to a reduced recoil slug to the neck/spine.



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The slug entered just under his chin, clipping his aorta and blowing out the back of his spinal column.



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Entrance wound is visible on the deer's neck.



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This deer was shot prior to the start of this thread, consequently I don't have as many pictures of the wound trauma as I would like.



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Closeup of the entrance wound.

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Last edited by montana bound on Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:12 pm
Posts: 267
12 gauge wound Profiles: Example #4 Whitetail Deer C

Terminal Ballistics Library: Whitetail Doe, 12 gauge Remington Recuced Recoil Slug

Statistics

* Species: Whitetail Deer
* Sex: Female
* Approximate Weight: 150 lbs
* Season: Fall, 2004
* Round: Remington Reduced Recoil 12 gauge foster style slug
* Shotgun: Factory 14 inch barreled Remington 870
* Shot Range: 20 yards
* Distance Travelled: 15 yards
* Time from Shot to Expiry: Approximately 10 seconds
* Bullet Recovery: No.
* Structures Damaged: Onside humerous, Heart and lungs




Image

Still hunting along a cutline climbing a wooded ridge, I bumped this whitetail from her day bed. She took off at a dead run across the cutline; the range was close enough for an ethical shot. The slug broke her onside humerous, traversed both lungs and the heart, and then exited out the backside.



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A nice whitetail. The big holes made by the .74 caliber slugs usually creates alot of bleeding.



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Another perspective on her final resting place.




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The poplar ridge where the deer was bedded.




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She wound up traveling approximately 5 yards into the forest on the opposite side of the cutline.




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She stumbled once in the bush, traveling approximately another 5 yards before expiring.



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Entrance Wound



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Another perspective on the entrance wound.




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The slug hit her onside humerous square on, breaking it. Undamaged leg bones from another deer for comparative purposes.




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Closeup of the fractured bone.



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A small stick shows the trajectory of the slug through the deer's thorax.

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Last edited by montana bound on Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:12 pm
Posts: 267
12 gauge wound Profiles: Example #5 Mule Deer A: Head Shot

Statistics

* Species: Mule Deer
* Sex: Female
* Approximate Weight: 200 lbs
* Season: Winter, 2004
* Round: Remington Reduced Recoil Foster Style Slug
* Shotgun: Factory 14 inch barreled Remington 870.
* Shot Range: 10 yards
* Distance Travelled: Fell where shot
* Time from Shot to Expiry: Instantaneous
* Bullet Recovery: No
* Structures Damaged: Brain




Image

I spent the day stalking on my stomach, and was fortunate enough to escape detection while crawling withing 10 yards of a bedded mule deer doe. Her head was the only target visible; good shot placement and good slug performance resulted in an instantaneous kill.




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I had already tagged and gutted the animal when I took this picture, hence the large amount of blood on the snow.




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Closeup of the entrance wound.




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The slug passed through the cranial cavity, and crushed the top of the skull the whole way through. The skin on top of the skull was intact, however after cutting it with my knife the entire inside of the deer's cranial cavity was exposed.



Image

In this case, good stalking skills and good shot placement resulted in absolutely no meat being destroyed. That being said, the head is a difficult target as it can move around so quickly.

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Last edited by montana bound on Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:54 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:12 pm
Posts: 267
12 gauge wound Profiles: Example #6 Mule Deer B

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
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Last edited by montana bound on Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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