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 Post subject: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:37 pm 
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Location: Indiana
After buying a krieghoff, would you trade it in for a kolar if the gun did not meet your expectations as to what is stated in their brochure. K-80"s skeet are born to shoot 50/50. correct. I have one that shoots 100/0 top bbl and 50/50 bottom bbl. I have struggled with this for 3 yrs and have done the route of everything feasible in getting it to shoot 50/50. It has been back in forth to corp every summer and short of replacing the barrels, it still shoots high. currently, I am without said gun again and am having a discussion on warrenty work of an obvious defect from the factory. Here is the kicker though, gun was built in 1992 and had never been serviced before I bought it in 2004. I could trade gun in but then I am undecided on wheather I would buy another one or try something different. what would you do.

mike

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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:58 pm 
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I`d try my best to fix it. I think with any gun you will find problems as yours. You would think for the price of a k gun it wouldn`t happen but I`m sure it does. I don`t think changing brands will be the answer unless you have found a kolar to be more to your liking. The kolar is a heavy gun and well built.


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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:50 pm 
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I'd trade it in on a Red Label. If it is in good shape, you probably wouldn't have to pay any boot. :D


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 Post subject: Re: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:32 pm 
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scattergun wrote:
I'd trade it in on a Red Label. If it is in good shape, you probably wouldn't have to pay any boot. :D


Good God NO! WTF would someone do that for? :roll:

Kolar is made not so far from me. A Wisconsin based company and they seem to a super nice gun from what I read. If I had the money I'd spend it on one I think.


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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:46 pm 
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Quote:
scattergun wrote:
I'd trade it in on a Red Label. If it is in good shape, you probably wouldn't have to pay any boot.


Good God NO! WTF would someone do that for?


He meant it as a joke, simmer down. See the smiley at the end of his post. It means some humor has been injected into their post.

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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:55 pm 
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Location: Salt Lake. Unless I'm off shooting....
That's a tough question.

Have you had a chance to spend any trigger time on a Kolar?

I finally had the chance to put some good time in on a Kolar, thank to Mr. John Herkowitz at Pacific Sporting Arms.

I really like the gun, especially with the ramp-taper rib they offer now. That allows me to get my head more upright and still keep in good relation to the gun and get crushing breaks. I'm still a little waffly about the trigger, but once you've shot a Blaser....

If I had the money right now, I honestly don't know whether I'd go with the German K or the American K. Just the fact that Kolar is made here appeals strongly to me. The guns are nuke-proof. I don't think you'll find a beefier gun out there. The handling dynamics are quite different from the K80, though. If the handling of the K80 works well for you (POI issues aside), the Kolar would be a change, to say the least. While as heavy or possibly heavier than the K80, the Kolar is very Perazzi-esque in its manners--it's much, MUCH livlier than you'd expect just looking at and hefting the gun.

If you can, put some good time in on a Kolar before you decide. If you like it, buy it! If you don't like the Kolar so much, I honestly don't think you'd go wrong with another K80. And if my K80 was shooting 100/0 top barrel, I'd be after the gentlemen in Ottsville until the danged thing was doing what it's supposed to.

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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:43 am 
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Kicker,

Just curious, what length barrel and rib style does your gun have? Some models, such as the step taper ribs, generally shoot high because they were designed for trap but if it's an 8mm or taper flat it sounds like an oops. Does the barrel have factory screw in chokes in the 12 gauge?

I hope everything works out for Kicker but there is a lesson here. There has been recent discussion on this board about the importance of point of impact determination, the first thing you should do with a new gun is check it. With a used gun, check it before you buy, or send it back if it's bad and within the grace period! The fact that a particular gun feels good when you mount it gives no assurance that it will shoot where you look.


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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:04 am 
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Location: SE Michigan
Kicker,

That would be out of spec for a K gun. Did you contact Krieghoff ? If not call them and tell them the problem. I'm not going to say what they will do but they stand by what they build. It would be a mistake not to.

all the best,
john

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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:36 am 
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As Stu said, if it is not a trap barrel, it should not shoot high.

I know you said you sent it to "corp" every summer...I'm assuming this is Ottsville. Personally, I think you need to have a conversation with them (try Steve Phillips, VP of Sales) and tell them the gun is coming back and to not return it until the POI is correct. If the barrel is out of registration and it takes new barrels, then it should be on them for having cocked it up.

By the by, you are establishing POI off of sand bags or some other stable platform, are you not? This is the only way to completely isolate where the gun itself is shooting, shooting mounted tells you where the gun shoots with the mount and fit that you have...which is a whole other story.

There is no reason to go to a Kolar over this, I shoot a Kolar, love it, but also have a K80 that I deeply appreciate. Get them to fix it.

Cheers

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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:21 am 
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Location: Indiana
Baron 23,eldriz

Bbls are 28' T/F KRIEGHOFF CHOCK. I have established that the top bbl was shooting 8 inchs High and 8 inchs left of Point of Aim by the following scenerios. Bought gun in summer of 2004, and had tthe usual adjustment getting used to shooting a krieghoff. Didn't think much about it and thought that it was me. Change some gun mount issues, started taking some coaching lessons, and by and by I was still missing 1-3 targets per 100 here in there. Mostly 3L, 5L, and 6L. Accepted the issue and concentrated on those minor faults thru summer of 2005. Summer of 2006, I purchased a set of 28' Heavies and all in all my Dbls and 12 gauge went up but my sub gauges started coming down in average. I then started keeping track of where I was missing and as I suspected, they were predomiently lows. It really came to show up in my 410 avg. i kept telling my buddies that it seems inorder for me to break the target with my top bbl I had to be 6inchs low of it. I then went the route of aquiring an assortment of stocks #3 adjustable, #5 adjustable and had the combs lowered such that they would go lower than the orginial cut. This seemed to solve the problem but, as we all know, sooner or later, your are going to start raising your head because you can't see anything and this is what I exactly started doing. Finally, by the start of this summer, I was feeling confident in my abilities and had really be working hard on 3,5, and 6 lows. Same scenerio as previous summers. However, now I was shooting and practicing with a highly respected AAA who then asked if I have patterened each bbls as well as my tube set.

In light, I first went the route of shooting offhand and worked on some issues. Then started shooting off a bench and the same reults were showing up. I even went the route of locking gun into lead sled. Same pattern kept coming up. Called kriegoff, sent pattern results and whole gun in and now I wait to see what they are going to do about it. From my stand point, I don't see how they are going to get it down. They are going to have to put a lot of wedge in the middle hanger to bring it down. i don;t know if that is the case. I just want them to get a set of bbls inwhich my sub gauge tubes will fit that are shooting 50/50. If that means new bbls then that is the case. However, this is an obvious factory defect and until I bought the gun was never made aware of. I even be willing to split the cost on new bbls. I am not mad just a bit frustrated. At least now, I can reasure myself that I am not going crazy and can blame the gun for all of my mistakes. LOL.

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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 328
Location: Florida
Mike...

I don't know what your travel plans are for next weekend and the following weekend, but one possibility for you to consider would be to have Larry Woo take a look at the gun for you.

Larry will be in Canton next weekend for the Color Matrix shoot and, of course, the Motor State in Detroit is the following weekend. I know it is about 4 hours or more of a drive for you each way. But, if you want to have the gun checked out in person, that might be the way to go.

Otherwise, I agree with Stephen that you should ship the gun back to Ottsville and have them checked out. They do a very good job keeping the guns to specs and will not rip you off if there does need to be adjustments or whatever.

Good luck.

Dan


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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:38 am 
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I can't ever remember...is it the top or bottom barrel that is fixed and the other barrel is effected by hanger changes?

Mike - it sure sounds like you did the whole patterning exercise to perfection. 8" inches high....given a 30" pattern at range, it sounds like this top barrel is shooting 80/20 which would be way too high for me. I do like 60/40, can't hardly tell the difference from 50/50 but gives me a little more pattern above the gun for birds like L5 & 6.

The left offset would also be a big concern to me....leads should be symmetrical and 8" is a pretty good change to have to account for between say H2 and L6.

I'm sure that they will make it right, if not satisfied and Steve Phillips doesn't help you, ask for Dieter Krieghoff. He is very aware of the need to maintain their reputation for extremely high quality competition grade performance and I'm sure he wouldn't accept this in one of his barrels.

Keep us informed of how it goes and best of luck.

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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:00 pm 
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I bought a Kolar last spring that may have been one of my better buys and I am quite happy with it. .750 bore, 30 inch barrels, step taper rib, lightweight tubes. It handles a lot different than my Browning XS did but I like it and even Shooting Star, a die hard K80 owner kind of looks at it with a gleam in his eye and asks to shoot it!
But I can't believe with Krieghoff's reputation for service that they won't take care of this so I wouldn't rush out to trade it unless you just can't get any satisfaction or just decide to move to another brand.


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 Post subject: Re: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:11 pm 
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Bridger wrote:
...even Shooting Star, a die hard K80 owner kind of looks at it with a gleam in his eye and asks to shoot it!


I was just doin' that to be polite, Al. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:36 pm 
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Kicker, you need to spend some time with a gun to find out if it works for you. K80 is a GREAT gun... got to think that if it shot where you aimed, you would be thrilled with it.

I have gone through the same problems with a Browning 525, that shoots 90/10- 100/0. Makes it real hard to shoot consistently. Like you, I can get most, but get frustrated when just a tiny bit high results in a miss.

Send it back, get'em to make it right... I believe you will love it when it works.

Bel_Dad


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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:36 am 
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My Krieghoff go to gun is forty years old this year, cost me $775.00 and, believe me, it had better keep working well and shooting 50-50 or they're going to hear from me!! Sure, I'd trade it for a Kolar if I had the chance. I'm always willing to try something new. I tried something new when I spent that $775.00.


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 Post subject: Re: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:48 am 
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Bridger wrote:
I bought a Kolar last spring that may have been one of my better buys and I am quite happy with it. .750 bore, 30 inch barrels, step taper rib, lightweight tubes. It handles a lot different than my Browning XS did but I like it and even Shooting Star, a die hard K80 owner kind of looks at it with a gleam in his eye and asks to shoot it!
But I can't believe with Krieghoff's reputation for service that they won't take care of this so I wouldn't rush out to trade it unless you just can't get any satisfaction or just decide to move to another brand.

I too have recently semi-retired my Browning XS skeet and purchased my first K-80, found a great deal on a used one with Kolar tubes and all the usual accessories. Very happy with the K-80. Called Krieghoff a few days ago to order a few minor spare parts and they shipped them to me for free. Excellent first impression I"d say and I am thankful for it. I did pattern it and my bottom barrel is 50/50 and top is 60/40. I'd call them and talk, my first impression of them is very good. My first registered shoot with the K-80 I went 473/500. Overall very pleased with Krieghoff.
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:32 pm 
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Speaking of his Kolar gun, Bridger wrote:
...even Shooting Star, a die hard K80 owner kind of looks at it with a gleam in his eye and asks to shoot it!

and I wrote:
I was just doin' that to be polite, Al. :mrgreen:

Sorry for dredging up an old thread, but I think Al (Bridger) saw right through me. Last week I bought the Kolar from him. :lol:

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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:03 pm 
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Congrats on the Kolar...

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 Post subject: re: choice between krieghoff vs kolar
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:17 pm 
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Good for you on the Kolar purchase Mark :D

I take it that you still have the K-80(of course, what am I thinking) :lol:

If I ever and that is a big if, get a different gun other than my XS Skeet, it would most likley be a Kolar.

But I have been kicking around the idea of a Browning XT Gold and tubing that for my skeet game.(more than half the price).

I am sure that you will shoot it well and

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