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 Post subject: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:02 pm 
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Greetings!
I need some information about buckshot. Can anyone tell me why Federal 20 gage #3 (or #2) buckshot is supposed to be a better load than many others? I have been told that Federal uses copper plated shot that is stacked in a spiral pattern, along with a plastic wad and buffering that is supposed to add up to a harder hitting, deeper penetrating load than many others in the same gage? Is this true? Or is it just a lot of hot air? If it is better, why? What does the spiral stacking have to do with penetration - the copper plating and the buffering, I understand. But I don't get the spiral stacking.

Also, what would you recommend for a defensive round, the #3 or the #2 buck? The only difference I can see is there are 2 more pellets in the #3 - 18 pellets in the #2 and 20 in the #3.

Thanks!
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Last edited by Chance on Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:34 pm 
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Probably due to the bore size. If they stack them in a spiral they'd get more even spacing of the pellets. 00Buck pellets will fit pretty evenly in stacks of three in a 12ga, but 000Buck will not. Same principle applies to the 20ga, pellets that do not stack evenly will not pattern well because they will push off of each other at odd angles as they leave the muzzle. I don't know much about their spiral arrangement, but I'd look for a pellet size that would fit in even stacks of three or four if I was looking for good patterning.


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 Post subject: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:03 pm 
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It has to do with getting the most pellets in the shell that they can and still produce a good pattern. #2 or 3 will not matter that much for defensive purposes. There is a pretty good thread on here about buckshot ballistics that you may want to check out. It should answer a few questions for you as well. Number two buck will be slightly larger per pellet but in reality, they are going to be so close in terms of mass and velocity that it is not going to matter much for penetration.

I think box-o-truth did a ballistics test of 20 ga. buckshot a while back as well which you may want to check out. I don't remember which size buck it was...

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 Post subject: Re: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:50 pm 
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jwinch2 wrote:
It has to do with getting the most pellets in the shell that they can and still produce a good pattern. #2 or 3 will not matter that much for defensive purposes. There is a pretty good thread on here about buckshot ballistics that you may want to check out. It should answer a few questions for you as well. Number two buck will be slightly larger per pellet but in reality, they are going to be so close in terms of mass and velocity that it is not going to matter much for penetration.

I think box-o-truth did a ballistics test of 20 ga. buckshot a while back as well which you may want to check out. I don't remember which size buck it was...


Unlike the 12 gauge Federal buckshot loads, 20 gauge buckshot from Federal do not have any type of shot cup or wrapper to eliminate pellet bore scrub.


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 Post subject: Re: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:23 am 
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RMc wrote:

Unlike the 12 gauge Federal buckshot loads, 20 gauge buckshot from Federal do not have any type of shot cup or wrapper to eliminate pellet bore scrub.


Interesting. I didin't know that. Thanks for the info!

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 Post subject: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:25 am 
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Federal has the Power-Shok loads that are plated and buffered. That should produce a better pattern at a given range than the unplated, unbuffered shot. I did some buckshot pattern testing in my 12 gauge and definitely found this to be the case - plated and buffered shot pattern MUCH better than plain lead buckshot.

Other than that, I think you're right - there's not much difference. At close range the pattern won't matter much. And, I personally don't see a significant difference between 18 pellets of 2Buck and 20 of 3Buck.

I sometimes use my 20 gauge as a backup when I'm out calling coyotes. In that case I load it with the Federal plated and buffered buckshot in 3" shell - I need the better pattern at ranges out to 30 yards. But, when I put it back under the bed I fill it with plain old Winchester Super-X lead buckshot.

There's not many choices for buckshot loads out there for a 20 gauge. One day I may get one of those Lee Loaders and see if I can load up some better coyote hunting rounds for my 20 gauge. Maybe use some hevi-shot for it.


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 Post subject: Re: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:46 pm 
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Kart29 wrote:
Federal has the Power-Shok loads that are plated and buffered. That should produce a better pattern at a given range than the unplated, unbuffered shot. I did some buckshot pattern testing in my 12 gauge and definitely found this to be the case - plated and buffered shot pattern MUCH better than plain lead buckshot.

Other than that, I think you're right - there's not much difference. At close range the pattern won't matter much. And, I personally don't see a significant difference between 18 pellets of 2Buck and 20 of 3Buck.

I sometimes use my 20 gauge as a backup when I'm out calling coyotes. In that case I load it with the Federal plated and buffered buckshot in 3" shell - I need the better pattern at ranges out to 30 yards. But, when I put it back under the bed I fill it with plain old Winchester Super-X lead buckshot.

There's not many choices for buckshot loads out there for a 20 gauge. One day I may get one of those Lee Loaders and see if I can load up some better coyote hunting rounds for my 20 gauge. Maybe use some hevi-shot for it.


Since #1 buck averages .285 in diameter you may want to try heat treating Hornady buckshot of that size and then stackiing in rows of 2 in a steel shot type wad.

Federal copper plated rounds have a higher atimony content than the soft lead used in other rounds. Unfortunately, most manufacturers assume hunters will not test their shotgun ammo and thus will only buy the cheapest with glitzy gimmick packaging. They are probably right.


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 Post subject: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:52 pm 
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Last edited by Chance on Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:43 pm 
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http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm

interesting how the 20 GA. slug didnt do much to the water jugs


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 Post subject: Re: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:56 pm 
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EBK wrote:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm

interesting how the 20 GA. slug didnt do much to the water jugs


You need a hard cast heat treated slug for penetration:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=78135


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 Post subject: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:18 pm 
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Good to know (hard cast lead) - cost? source?



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Last edited by Chance on Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:59 am 
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Chance wrote:
Good to know (hard cast lead) - cost? source?

Chance ^77


Source: www.dixieslugs.com

Factory loaded 20 gauge ( .625 caliber ) 500 grain, hard cast, heat treated slugs for rifled barrels. These are available at three velocity/recoil levels:

Terminator 20 @ 1200 fps, Xterminator 20 @ 1400 fps, Stryker 20 @ 1050 fps.


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 Post subject: Re: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:51 pm 
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RMc wrote:
EBK wrote:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm

interesting how the 20 GA. slug didnt do much to the water jugs


You need a hard cast heat treated slug for penetration:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=78135


thats fine ill stick with my 12 Gauge :)


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 Post subject: Re: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:19 pm 
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EBK wrote:
RMc wrote:
EBK wrote:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm

interesting how the 20 GA. slug didnt do much to the water jugs


You need a hard cast heat treated slug for penetration:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=78135


thats fine ill stick with my 12 Gauge :)


EKB:

Your 12 gauge will not equal the penetration of the .416 Rigby (factory 400 grain Nosler Partition), unless it is loaded with these:

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=39309

Penetration tests and pictures.


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 Post subject: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:14 pm 
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Thanks guys, for all of this information! I was hoping this thread didn't turn into one of those 12 gage vs.. 20 gage arguments, and (so far) it didn't. I needed information on the 20 gage shotgun, for home defense purposes. Why I chose the 20 gage is irrelevant - the fact is I chose 20 gage, and that's the info I needed. And got! I really appreciate this forum - any time I've had a question that is shotgun related, I know I can get the answer here!

You guys are all great! Thanks again for the information, including some of the links (for example, I had never before heard of Box of Truth. Now that I know, I have yet another resource.)

you all take care!
-Chance {CR8 ^77
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Last edited by Chance on Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:27 pm 
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RMc wrote:
EBK wrote:
RMc wrote:
EBK wrote:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm

interesting how the 20 GA. slug didnt do much to the water jugs


You need a hard cast heat treated slug for penetration:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=78135


thats fine ill stick with my 12 Gauge :)


EKB:

Your 12 gauge will not equal the penetration of the .416 Rigby (factory 400 grain Nosler Partition), unless it is loaded with these:

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=39309

Penetration tests and pictures.


No but it will reliably stop a BG thats all I need :D

As far as 20 gauge for home defense I would not use slugs. find some federal #2 buckshot JMHO YMMV


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 Post subject: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:52 pm 
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I agree - no slugs for home defense! They have a nasty habit of going through the intended target and arriving in an un-intended target. And, all too often, that un-intended target turns out to be somebody you know!

Actually, after reading these posts, I went to the box of truth website, and read the information there. Then I went to one of our sponsor's web sites, Dixie Slugs, and read everything they had there. Then, I sent them an e-mail, and I flat out asked them what, in they're opinion, is the best round for home defense, using a Remington 20 gage pump, with a short (6 1/2 inch) barrel. That short barrel throws a whole new light on the topic. So, now I'm waiting to see if they have the time (and the inclination) to respond to my question. If you guys are interested, I'll post whatever they respond with, assuming they do respond.

see ya!
Chance {CR8 ^77
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Last edited by Chance on Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: 20 gage buckshot
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:39 pm 
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Hey Kart29!

I was just re-reading this thread, and I noticed that you mention getting yourself a Lee Loader. I used to re-load handgun and rifle ammo, but never tried any shotgun ammunition. Is there much of a difference between shotgun ammo and the rest? Is there a specific reason you like the Lee Loader? Is the Lee product better than the rest? If so, why? Like I said, I don't know squat about re-loading shotgun ammunition - maybe I should start a new thread on the topic.
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