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 Post subject: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:26 pm 
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A buddy of mine is looking to get a pump shotgun, mostly because that is all he can afford, to accompany me to the range, just for fun. We might try out Trap (no disadvantage for his pump shotgun there) or just mess around, who knows. I know that pump shotguns generally have more felt recoil than semi-autos, just because of how they're made, but among pump shotguns, which have generally the least felt recoil? I know the Comfortech on Benelli Supernovas has had mixed reviews. Some people report no difference in felt recoil even. Is it simply picking the heaviest pump shotgun?

Cameron




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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:26 pm 
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If your friend is really recoil sensitive then get a recoil pad from Limbsaver or Kick-eze. You can get slip on type or for the common pumps like Rem 870 or Mossberg 500 I think you can get a pad already fitted for that stock. I believe they'll run around $30. Even a cheapie slip on pad like from Pachmeyer works pretty well - I use one on my Mosin-Nagant M44 which kicks like a mule and it makes the gun tolerable. Got it for $9 at Wal-Mart. But for really recoil sensitive people Limbsaver or Kick-eze seem to be the best.

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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:09 pm 
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While Limbsavers or Kick-eeze pads are an option, it's always nice to start with the softest kicking one to begin with, especially if he finds it fits well. Adding pads can change the stock dimension, plus he isn't stuck on any one brand or country of origin. Remington, Mossberg, Benelli, all are fine with him.

Cameron


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:52 pm 
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Having the proper gun fit is the start. Otherwise, due to it being a fixed breech gun when firing, it pretty much comes down to gun weight. In that respect, I'd say the BPS is the best commonly available pump as far as recoil, they're tanks.

As stated, a limbsaver is a great investment. I put one on my 870 Express and it definitely tamed the 3" shells.


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:39 pm 
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I'd say my BPS is the softest kicking pump I own. It's back-bored and I don't know if it helps any or not, but it does kick a bit more than my 500 and about the same as my dad's Super Mag.

Matt


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:46 pm 
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Okay, I'll steer him toward the BPS, thanks all!

Cameron


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:58 am 
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IMHO, saying one brand gives less recoil discomfort (given similar gun weight and identical ammunition) across the boards for everyone is suspect.

The individual's size, weight and proprtions, combined with gun fit will all effect the perceived recoil.

To get an honest appraisal for themselves, the individual has to try different guns, using the same ammunition for the tests. There is no other way I know of to determine this.

Having shot 100,000's shells through 870's, I can say the recoil felt from them is not an issue at all.......for me. I know can't tell another person they will have the same experience with the 870, or any other brand/madel with any certainty.


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:44 am 
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Many Remington 870 models come standard with limbsaver pads. They refer to them as "R3" pads. Your not going to find a softer pad. To me the 870 would be my first choice in pumps. A very proven gun. Bps is nice, but it don't fit me well enough for me to consider one. My only other choice would be a M37 Ithica. That there is a smooth gun and I really loved the "storm" models, the waterfowl storm to be specific. It came in camo, had hi-vis and limbsaver pad all stock and was very light I thought. I kick myself for not buying a new one when I could. I'd say for current guns if the remy fits it would be definatly a choice to look at.


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:00 am 
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Don't think that any one pad becomes a cureall. To tame recoil without the expense of adding recoil devices, the gun needs to fit, have a sufficiently high/straight stock, be of ample weight and you need to shoot the lightest load needed for dependable perfornce for the targets you are shooting. There's a big big differece between shooting a properly set up Trap gun with 1 ounce loads at 1180fps than shooting an off the shelf field gun with Walmart specials. In general terms though, weight and shells do the most to tame recoil.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:25 am 
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SS wrote:
Don't think that any one pad becomes a cureall. To tame recoil without the expense of adding recoil devices, the gun needs to fit, have a sufficiently high/straight stock, be of ample weight and you need to shoot the lightest load needed for dependable perfornce for the targets you are shooting. There's a big big differece between shooting a properly set up Trap gun with 1 ounce loads at 1180fps than shooting an off the shelf field gun with Walmart specials. In general terms though, weight and shells do the most to tame recoil.


Compair any gun with a limbsaver vrs the same gun with something they use to put on and let me know if you feel any difference. :wink: I have two 300 mags one with a limbsaver factory stock. Both very compairable in configuration and fit. Biggest difference is the weight. Almost a 4 lbs difference between the two. Limbsaver gun is a pooch to shoot and the heavy one hasn't the recoil pad enough to make it an all day shooter. Not that I make it a point to shoot all day with my 300s. :lol: If it was 4 pounds lighter I'd imagin with it's pad it has it would be somewhere between unpleasant and brutal to shoot. There is always exceptions to the "felt" recoil arguement. Generally speaking taking compairable shotguns, the one with a really nice pad has got the upper hand. Remingtons just to so happen to install one off the highest rated, comfortable recoil reducing pads to many of their ever popular 870 pumps making it a serious contender.


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:02 pm 
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We're talking about shotguns here, not rifles, so the "fit" part comes more into play unless you're talking about large bore stuff and .300 mags are not large bores (not even medium bores) or very heavy kickers unless built as an ultralight. Furthermore, I'm assuming you are shooting off a bench and that too is a different kettle of fish.

Just curious, but if two .300 mags are of the same fit and configuration, how on earth is one fours pounds heavier than the other? That's a whole bunch of weight. Are the LOPs the same? Is the one with the pad longer and perhaps it fits you better? Why don't you have a limbsaver on the heavy gun?

There's no disagreement that limbsaver pads work, but they or any other recoil pad is secondary to weight and loads in taming recoil. Do the math on the various recoil formulas. Especially do the math with all things being equall except for 4#s of weight. The best thing about pads are that the rounded edges don't bite you and the darn thing can be leaned against the wall with fewer chances of taking a fall!


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:30 pm 
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I thought the important thing here was reducing the recoil the shooter actually felt. No doubt re SS's points on how to reduce the actual recoil. But pads are probably the easiest way to reduce felt recoil. The OP mentioned his friend has no preference for brands and that a pump was all he could afford - that suggests to me the cheapest/most cost effective way to go is something like an Express with a pad. There are plenty of options for fitting a pad so the gun will still fit the shooter. And weight can be added to the stock to provide that advantage.

The impression I get is this case is more about good friends sharing an activity than a real focus on competitive shooting. Limbsaver pads have extended the shooting life of many individuals

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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:35 pm 
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I started shooting the Supernova a year ago after the regular Nova, and my expierence was greatly reduced recoil. 3 1/2in shells feel like nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:08 pm 
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SS wrote:

Just curious, but if two .300 mags are of the same fit and configuration, how on earth is one fours pounds heavier than the other? That's a whole bunch of weight. Are the LOPs the same? Is the one with the pad longer and perhaps it fits you better? Why don't you have a limbsaver on the heavy gun?
One rifle is more of a bench rest rifle and the other is carbine. I don't need a limbsaver on the heavy gun, but you feel more recoil with it than the lighter gun with the limbsaver. Both guns are roughly the same measurements. Both feel nice shouldering them but I was shocked in just how much difference the felt recoil is lessened buy the limbsaver on the light one. It was one of thoughs holy$&^# moments the first time I shot it. I have an 11-87 Premier and a new supermag. Both are now are the same weight and measurements and one has a limbsaver and the other doesn't. The limbsaver is noticeably softer and if you put the stocker back on the premier there is no compairison what so ever.
I guess my point is out of the box softest shooting 12ga pump I'd put my bet with the one with the limbsaver.


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:15 pm 
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If your friend is lookin' at used SG's and should happen across one with a Lyman Cutts Compensator, I'd suspect that the recoil wouldn't be bad at all. Add a limbsaver or R3 and it's amazing.

I've a few older SG's with Cutts on them and you can definitely feel the difference. One, a 1946 Ithaca 12 ga 37R, fits so well that after a round of clays there's no discomfort at all, and it has no pad of any kind.


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:28 pm 
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The pump that will have the lightest kick (felt recoil) is the one that fits you best. For me that is the Benelli Nova. Not great for aftermarket parts, but I bought it because it has the best fell when I shoulder it. When I shoot my friends 870, they kick me like a mule because they fit me so poorly. But they also think my nova kicks harder, because the 870 fits them better.

That being said, recoil pads are priceless. I put a Limbsaver on my Nova and it made the biggest difference over the hard rubber factory pad. Weight also plays an role in actual recoil, but not always felt recoil.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:37 pm 
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New_Geezer wrote:
I thought the important thing here was reducing the recoil the shooter actually felt. No doubt re SS's points on how to reduce the actual recoil. But pads are probably the easiest way to reduce felt recoil. The OP mentioned his friend has no preference for brands and that a pump was all he could afford - that suggests to me the cheapest/most cost effective way to go is something like an Express with a pad. There are plenty of options for fitting a pad so the gun will still fit the shooter. And weight can be added to the stock to provide that advantage.

The impression I get is this case is more about good friends sharing an activity than a real focus on competitive shooting. Limbsaver pads have extended the shooting life of many individuals


New Geezer, your post is an excellent thought out piece of information and logic. Note to others: Read this and learn. He made very good points and steered the topic back to what the OP asked.
Finally, the Limbsaver is indeed a good cost effective choice to dampen recoil. I know it turned my Nova from a bruiser to a nice shooter for trap or other high volume shooting.

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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:52 pm 
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The Super Nova is the only pump I know of with the Hydraulic recoil reduction system. It helps a tremendous amount. I feel pretty safe in saying it should be the softest shooting pump available today.


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 Post subject: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:12 pm 
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You can rule out any of the 3.5 pump models when using that type ammunition, especially target shooting or patterning...:lol: Indeed fit is a certain factor but my vote would go to the Browning BPS because the shotgun is indeed a heavy bahemoth.

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 Post subject: Re: re: Softest shooting 12 gauge pump shotgun?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:38 pm 
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HKGuns wrote:
The Super Nova is the only pump I know of with the Hydraulic recoil reduction system.

Are you referring to the mercury recoil reduction extension you put in the stock? If so, I thought it is only an option on the regular Novas, not the SuperNovas?

Cameron




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