CalendarCalendar   Photos  * FAQ
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:43 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:47 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:40 am
Posts: 152
Opening day of dove season a buddy of mine was shooting a Remington 11-87 12 ga., his wifes gun, and mentioned he was having some problems with the shells ejecting. Later in the week he was borrowing an 870 12 ga. of mine and said he was still having the same problem. I didn't give it a lot of thought, but found it odd an 870 was giving his this sort of problem. He was shooting Winchester game loads with a silver base that I am assuming is aluminum. This 870 has never given me any problems.

We were hunting yesterday, he was still shooting the 870, and I was shooting a brand new Beretta 390 20 ga. Late in the day I was having problems with shells ejecting and at first thought it was probably due to shooting a new gun, although I had completely stripped the gun, cleaned and re-lubricated before going out. I then realized that I started the day shooting some older Remington shells that worked fine and then switched to Winchester ammo that has the aluminum base. I purchased two of these 390's and shot the other on last week without any problems; I was using the same Remington ammo then.

I'm going to take several different types of ammo with me when we hunt later in the week, but it sure seems to me, at least in this admittedly limited use, that the aluminum base shotshells may be causing the problem, especially with an 870. I'm curious is anyone here has had similar experience with this type of ammo.

Thanks for any info or insights!




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:10 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:49 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
I had a problem with them ejecting once, never used them since, but it was because the plastic would split up the side of the shell causing the priblem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:13 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Posts: 4397
Location: TEXAS my TEXAS again!!
They can cause a bit of sticking, Those winchester hulls with the silvery color base is actually steel. I have some guns that'll stick with them, and some that eat them and go on. Polishing the chamber might help. I don't doubt the performance on targets or birds, though. Find the right gun and ammo combo for the rest of those shells and get to it.

_________________
Psalm 18


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:23 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:11 pm
Posts: 2769
Location: Houston, Texas
Current, as sold at Academy, WW Promo loads 1 oz are sticky on ejection in several of my guns--when the guns get warm and a challenge when the guns are hot.

My guess is that the steel material in the shell head is not as elastic as brass and is being pushed to a higher pressure than either the Rem Heavy Dove, WW AA or Rem Nitro 27 or Remington Promo.

Only the Winchester Promo rounds and only when hot--ambient temps in the 90s and more than 25 rounds have proven to be a bit sticky in O/Us on ejection. 1100s, 870s an SX 2 no problem--they go out fast and far.

_________________
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. This gives moderate exercise to the body & it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Let your gun be your constant companion.
T. Jefferson (1785)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:32 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:40 am
Posts: 152
Interesting responses so far.

I've got a couple of flats of these, some a 7/8 oz that came from Academy and some are 1 oz that came from Cabelas.

Shows what I get for assuming they were aluminum, sure 'nuff, I just stuck a magnet on one and like you said, it's steel.

I'll try these again through my 390's and I'll also give 'em run through a 686 and see what happens. I'm still shocked they created problems in an 870. I think I'll stay away from this stuff in the future.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:23 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 17190
Location: Missouri
Extraction and "sticky shell" problems in any shotgun are usually caused by chambers that need burnishing with a dowel rod, steel wool, gun oil, and an electric drill. The shell swells up and grabs the dirty chamber, and sticks. Clean the chamber slick enough, and it should eject. This especially troublesome with pump shotguns and over and unders, but if they get dirty enough, automatics can give trouble, too.

Clean the chamber. A lot. Polish the bejezus out of it. Plastic shells put a residue on the the chambers you can't really even see, but it's enough to cause sticky extraction. If you are really brave, use very fine emery cloth and gun oil, but be careful, as you don't want to make your chamber oversize.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:34 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert

Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 7:38 pm
Posts: 12231
Location: Panhandle
What he said, polish the chamber.

_________________
Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:29 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:43 pm
Posts: 2325
Location: PA Dutch Country
The Winchester cheapies definitely have a bad rep for sticking, at least on the internet. Supposedly they have a thicker rim that hinders extraction in some guns. I have never tried them; stores around here stock the Remington cheapies for less than the Winchesters so I have no reason to find out for myself.

Jeremiah

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:22 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:01 am
Posts: 84
Location: Holyoke Ma.
I am not sure whats going on at winchester But last year I had one of there game loads go off while closing the bolt on one of my shotguns I was not hurt but it really messed up my 870 I Found the cartridge head about 25 feet behind me the primmer did not have fireing pin mark apperrently a high primmer or overly sinsitve primmer the inceident ruined the lifter assembly and split the forend I am gunsmith have been for well over thirty years . There was nothing wrong with the shotgun it was defective ammunition I will never use winchester shot shells again I did inform winchester gave the the lot no and the remains of the the defective shell have heard nothing


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:14 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Flatwoods, KY
I've never had any problems out of Winchester Universals with my gold. I did, however, have some shells stick in my BPS. It wasn't very hard to pump, as some people have told stories about, but I did have to use a little more force than usual. If I'm shooting sporting clays I'll use the AA's but when just messing around throwing my own clays I use the cheapo's.

Matt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:28 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:30 pm
Posts: 11
I have fired literally thousands (and reloaded just as many) of the steel based win's and can say I haven't experienced any problems. Most of my shooting is from a pump and I will only reload these hulls once, as a rule. The only draw back I've had with the steel rim is it can start to corrode if you hold onto them for any length of time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:19 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:40 am
Posts: 152
I polished the chamber on the 390 in question, but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet to see if the functioning improved. Went out to shoot some dove yesterday and used a 20 ga. 686 with the Winchester ammo in question. No problems in the 686.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:41 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:52 pm
Posts: 4
I have had the same problem in both a S&W Model 1000 and a new Remington 105cti. My son has a G-3 that has no problem with them. I swapped my Winchester shells with him for some Remingtons. I have no problems with these or Estate shells in either gun. I don't completely buy the chamber polishing deal. If the problem is with the gun why do two brands feed fine and the Winchesters won't? Logic says there is something different about the shells.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:15 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:31 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Ohio
Here we go again.I would boycott anything Winchester until they start making good guns again.As far as the ammo goes,Winnie doesn't make it---hasn't for a long time.The Wally World Universals pretty much suck.Either some people are too cheap or too rushed (read: DUMB) to look behind the counter.As for the Universal problem,I have had a couple of the bases split.I have had ALOT of failure to eject cleanly with these loads.I have compared them with Rems,Feds,Rios,Rottweils and AAs and found that the Win Unis are .010 to .030 longer than the others on average.I think that is the reason for the hang ups.I shoot a 60's vintage Wingmaster that has a fixed MOD choke and has at least 20,000 rounds through it.I shoot slugs through it too.Never a problem,unless I use Win Unis.Stopped using them years ago.If you look hard,the Remmy Sports/Game loads are behind the counter for less cash than the so called 100 rd value packs.It's just not worth the $2 you save by going cheap----whether it's an orange bird or something you can put on your table.

Jimmy D

_________________
"We should have shotguns for this kinda deal."

-Jules Winfield-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:29 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Flatwoods, KY
Whenever I have a problem out of them, I'll quit using them.


Until them I'm going to be either dumb or cheap...

Matt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:17 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:57 pm
Posts: 1092
Location: Shropshire UK
I have been shooting for well over 20 yrs and as far as I know I have never shot a brass cased shell unless TT gave me a few when I was over there - All our shells are steel and I have never seen or experienced a shell sticking in chamber even when barrel is too hot to touch - we do have the habit here of cleaning our guns after every shoot except one of my mates with 391 and even he never has a sticking shell problem

Dave

_________________
My light's on but the bulb is getting dimmer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:01 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:31 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Ohio
Dave,a warm barrel (and chamber) would actually get bigger,not more constrictive on the shell.

Matt,even though you have never had any troublewith them----but myself and many other users have had lots of trouble--would you be willing to trust something many others find problematic;

A.A trophy hunt or shooting at a trophy animal?

B.A championship round of trap,skeet or sporting clays?

C.A defense situation where you or a loved one was involved?

Guns and ammunition are mechanical devices,they DO in fact screw up,break and wear out.I'm not happy when ammo fails and I miss a bird or a clay---it's not the end of the world though.It would be in the above case of "C".A gun and its ammo are designed to go off every time.When I use a particular brand of ammo in many different guns (as others have) then I stop using it.Would you buy a car that failed to start 3/100 times?A smoke alarm?Burglar alarm?A gun?That missed bunny or clay isn't horrible---but the above situations would be.Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Jimmy D

_________________
"We should have shotguns for this kinda deal."

-Jules Winfield-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:34 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Flatwoods, KY
Your right about these situations Jimmy, but like I said in the earlier post I don't use these shells in these situations. For trophy animals I like either using Winchester Supreme's or a G5 Montec. When on the range shoting SC's I like the AA's and for personal defence I like my .45ACP in personal defence rounds.

I think this is the reason why they make these rounds so cheap. Just like the 525 rounds of remington .22 shells, they're not intended for hunting, just plinking or playing around. I wouldn't use any of these rounds in a serious sentuation, and I don't believe they're made for that.

Matt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:35 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:52 am
Posts: 3156
Location: Evans City, PA.
From what I've seen at the range, the Winchester economy packs are unfortunately the worst of the worst, the most problematic cycling in many different shotguns, especially semi-autos. I only buy the Winchesters at Wally World when they are out of Federal or Remington 100 economy packs.

_________________
“Think safety first and then have a good hunt.”
- Tom Knapp -


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: problems with 'aluminum based' Winchester shotshells?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:53 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 17190
Location: Missouri
I smoke the best cigarettes I can find, and on the rare occasions I drink whiskey, nothing but the best will do, unless it's a good friend, and it's his whiskey, and one wouldn't want to be rude. :lol:

As for shotgun shells, if it will go "bang" it's good enough for me on Wednesday nights, shooting with my buddies.

We've been shooting a lot lately. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights too. I took out my old Smith and Wesson 1000, which has two barrels. One barrel is a brand new, old stock Modified, the other a Skeet barrel that apparently came new with the gun, years ago.

On Saturday night the gun had no problems, with either barrel. Shells are the cheapest I can find. Challengers and Rios. On Sunday night, halfway through a round, the 1000 started having occasional failures to feed the second round. I noticed the ejected shells weren't going very far. I switched barrels and the newer, cleaner Modified barrel had no troubles. We keep a 12 gauge bore snake in the shed, along with a can of Outer's gun oil. Three swipes with the oversized 12 gauge bore snake cleaned the chamber of the Skeet barrel enough that the gun started kicking shells out as it should, and cycing the second ones perfectly. That barrel gets the electric drill "treatment" tomorrow evening.

It ain't the shells. It's chambers with built up plastic fouling. That's what causes a shell to stick in the chamber, at least in my experience.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 2fewdaysafield, 3 on 8, 6mmdasher, analyst, Anitr70R, barrowsr, bigcat1, Bing [Bot], BobK, Brute1963, Cerberus, cookoff013, CZMark, daspope, dolphin717, drcook, dthudon, eiderz, er318, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Hank'sGunner, happman, heelerman, hopper810, Jim18611865, jm9x23, John H, jrmev, KennethMl, kkramer673, lovethosesooners, NimrodRx, oinodam, PKW-Indiana, prostockta, RockyH, seawolfxix, ShrinkMD, Stan686, TankRIP, target johnny, tjen, TowPro1, tradewinds, washandwear, Win571, Yahoo [Bot], youknowit, ysr_racer


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group     -  DMCA Notice