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 Post subject: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:04 am 
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Hi!

I found this forum while trying to identify a potential "new" gun of mine. The shotgun in question is an AYA.

I would like to get this IDed (edit: it is done!), and also would love if anyone could tell me a bit about this gun. Here are some things that would help me:
  • What does the different markings mean:
    • The "O" and "11" on the "grip part" (or whatever it is called)?
    • The "01" and an asterix below the AYA logo on the barrels?
  • As can be seen on one of the pictures, the two "hammers" uncocked are not of an equal "size" (they don't protrude equally). Is this a problem?
  • It looks a bit worn, but its operation feels very "tight". Can anything be said about the condition of the gun based on the pictures? If you need more photos, tell me!
  • Is it a good gun? (It will actually be my first shotgun, I'll use it to hunt grouse..)

I don't feel AyA's website gives too much info about this - they could have used a bit more pictures from each model!

Edit:
This info is established:
  • What model is it? No. 4? -> Model 106, year 1970
  • When was this gun made? The sellers states "it's about 30 years old".. Judging from the serial number, it is between '66 and '71, probably somewhere in the middle.
  • Is it possible to tell something from the serial number? -> Yes, AyA apparently have a list of all serial#s ever, and told me the model and the year of make (Model 106, year 1970).
  • Can one use the steel cartridges (shots) in this gun? (I believe the guns of olden days wasn't made for the pressures such shots exert on the gun/barrels?) -> "I would not shoot steel or Hevishot in this gun."
  • An estimated value of this gun? -> Apparently $177.048 "is a steal!" :-)
These markings are established:
  • The "two shotguns in cross with the number 2 on top" is probably the model number, right? NO, it is a stamp that some test have been done.
  • The "letters BP above a circle in a shield"? it is a stamp that some test have been done.
  • The "1400 GRMS"? 1.4 kg? The weight of the gun? - NO, it is the weight of the barrel: 1394 grams, according to my kitchen scale
  • The "X in a shield with some penguin on top"?! -> Eibar,Spain proof house
  • 900 KGS (The certified pressure?) -> Proof load in kilograms (I guess it is kg/cm2)
  • The "18,5" on the barrels? -> bore in mm, chokes are not marked by the proof house in Spain.
  • The single star on one barrel, and three stars on the other barrel? -> full choke and modified choke ("modified" is european "half", btw)
  • 12-70 is ammunition, unless I am mistaken -> yes!
Thanks to everyone that contributed to this research, in particular A5guy and ROGER OVER UNDER!


Here's pictures, you may go to http://picorg.net/shotgun/ to get them in higher resolution.

Full view:
Image

Central view:
Image

I don't know what this is called in English, but "broken open" would be a direct translation:
Image

Symbols on the grip-part:
Image

Symbols on the barrels:
Image

Hammers don't protrude equally:
Image


Last edited by stolsvik on Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:36 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: re: AYA, probably #2?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:58 am 
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The gun pictured is an Anson & Deeley boxlock action. The AyA #2 is a sidelock gun. I am not sure what model your gun is but it is not a Matador, #2,Model 453,Bolero,Senior,#1,#53,#56,M106,M117 or M210. The only A&D boxlock that I am sure of in the AyA line was the Bill Hanus Bird Gun but they have made many models over the years.

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 Post subject: re: AYA, probably #2?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:05 am 
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http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=103171

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=103307

I know it says AYA.
Looks more like a German gun than Spanish.

Why do you think it would be called a #2??

I believe the gun was manufactured in 1968-1970

BP=Long guns from gropus 3 and 4 - Supplementary test with smokeless powder

The guns crossed with Number 2=
definitiva Long guns from the groups 3 and 4 - Final test


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 Post subject: Re: re: AYA, probably #2?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:55 am 
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A5guy wrote:
The gun pictured is an Anson & Deeley boxlock action. The AyA #2 is a sidelock gun. I am not sure what model your gun is but it is not a Matador, #2,Model 453,Bolero,Senior,#1,#53,#56,M106,M117 or M210. The only A&D boxlock that I am sure of in the AyA line was the Bill Hanus Bird Gun but they have made many models over the years.


Thanks for info.

I'm obviously clueless here, so bear with me: Why do you state "Anson & Deeley" and then "AyA" in kinda the same sentence? I do realize that "y" is spanish for "and", but where does the "Anson" and "Deeley" come into the picture? Btw: What is boxlock and sidelock? I've seen the terms many times, but haven't yet understood what they mean.

Edit: I now understand! Both regarding the "Anson&Deeley", and boxlock and sidelock. I realize that it can't be a No. 2, and that this seller also have got this wrong, or I read his title wrong. So, what is it?

I've found some more markings on the top of the barrel. It states "AYA - Aguirre & Aranzaral". Well..

What about a No. 4 or a No. 4/53?

What is the difference between those two models?


Last edited by stolsvik on Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: re: AYA, probably #2?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:07 am 
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ROGER OVER UNDER wrote:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=103171

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=103307

I know it says AYA.
Looks more like a German gun than Spanish.

I believe the gun was manufactured in 1968-1970

BP=Long guns from gropus 3 and 4 - Supplementary test with smokeless powder

The guns crossed with Number 2=
definitiva Long guns from the groups 3 and 4 - Final test


Thanks for the links and info!

I don't quite get what you mean by "I know it says AYA.
Looks more like a German gun than Spanish."

ROGER OVER UNDER wrote:
Why do you think it would be called a #2??


I think I mentioned why in the initial posting, but here goes: Aya makes guns they call "No 2", "No 4" and so on. I found some ad in some buy/sell sites, and at least one of them looked very similar, AND then I saw the number "2" again on the crossed-guns sign, and took a logic shortcut..! Obviously flawed logic, since that sign means something entirely different.


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 Post subject: re: AYA..!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:21 pm 
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Your gun is definately an AyA. The 12-70 proof means that it is a 12 gauge with 70mm long chambers(2 3/4").

Proofs:


X on shield=Eibar,Spain proof house

18.5 = bore in mm, chokes are not marked by the proof house in Spain.

900KG = Proof load in kilograms

one star & three stars = full choke and modified choke

Crossed shotguns with number 2 over = Final black powder proof of 8818 psi. This proof is only for completely finished barrels that do not vary more than .016 inch.

BP = final proof with smokless powder load of 12,090 psi.

This gun was proofed after July 9, 1931 at Eibar,Spain and made in Spain by Aguirre Y Aranzabal. I do not know what model it is.

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 Post subject: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:26 pm 
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The AYA#2 is a SIDELOCK gun.
This is not a sidelock gun.
The whole side of the reciever is the mechanism on a #2. The sidelocks can be removed with the mechanism attached for cleaning/easy access.

You are showing a BOXLOCK with a Greener crossbolt. BOXLOCKS are self contained, shorter, BOX rather than a long slim reciever.

Greener, or Anson & Deeely are in fact old manufacturers who invented designs that are still used today.
We refer to them by their names.


Last edited by ROGER OVER UNDER on Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:09 pm 
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ROGER OVER UNDER wrote:
The AYA#2 is a SIDELOCK gun.
This is not a sidelock gun.
The whole side of the reciever is the mechanism. The sidelocks can be removed with the mechanism attached for cleaning/easy access.

You are showing a BOXLOCK with a Greener crossbolt. BOXLOCKS are self contained, shorter, BOX rather than a long slim reciever.

Greener, or Anson & Deeely are in fact old manufacturers who invented designs that are still used today.
We refer to them by their names.


I've understood the point about sidelock and boxlock by now, and do understand that it cannot possibly be a AyA #2.

But the Greener crossbolt was new information, so thanks for that!

What about a AyA #4?

(The links aren't underscored on this site, and the link-color is approx 1 micro-shade away from the main text, so it is pretty much impossible to see that I've linked the "AyA #4" in the preceding text.. But I have.)


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 Post subject: Re: re: AYA..!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:35 pm 
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A5guy wrote:
Your gun is definately an AyA. The 12-70 proof means that it is a 12 gauge with 70mm long chambers(2 3/4").

Proofs:

.. lots of info ..


Thanks a lot for that, this cleared up a bit!

Given the proofs, is it smart to shoot with steel shots in this gun?

So for the subjective parts: how is the condition of this gun, can anything be said from the pictures? Are the AyA guns good?


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 Post subject: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:19 pm 
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Greener crossbolt is the bolt that slides across into the locking mechanism.

Not common in AYAs at all.

The cheek piece and swivel hooks along with the German look tell me AYA probably designed this for the Europian market.

The Numbers on the water table place it around 1970 or so.

It looks like it has seen better days but it could be cleaned up.

Cross bolt designs tend to stay tight for a long time.

I have never seen an AYA like it.


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 Post subject: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:30 pm 
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I would not shoot steel or Hevishot in this gun.

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 Post subject: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:53 am 
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From AyA:

Dear Sir,

We let you know that gun serial nº 330866 is model 106- year 1970.

Production of this model was stopped a long time ago and this is the only information we have in our records.

regards. CARMEN
AYA-AGUIRRE Y ARANZABAL, S.A.


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 Post subject: Re: re: AYA, probably #2?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:14 am 
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A5guy wrote:
The gun pictured is an Anson & Deeley boxlock action. The AyA #2 is a sidelock gun. I am not sure what model your gun is but it is not a Matador, #2,Model 453,Bolero,Senior,#1,#53,#56,M106,M117 or M210. The only A&D boxlock that I am sure of in the AyA line was the Bill Hanus Bird Gun but they have made many models over the years.


AyA says it is a model 106, from 1970 (I posted the mail from them in a reply to the top post).

I see you say it isn't a M106. Would you care to reconsider?! :-)

I tried searching Google for some more on the 106, but to no avail (there is too much things called "aya" in this world, apparently). If this is a 106 - do you have any additional info about it?

And possibly also any indication about value? (The seller wants .. to be exact .. 177.048 USD!) - basically, should I buy it?! :-]


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 Post subject: Re: re: AYA, probably #2?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:40 am 
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stolsvik wrote:
(The seller wants .. to be exact .. 177.048 USD!) - basically, should I buy it?! :-]


Throw the money down on the table, grab the gun, and run away before he can change his mind! Don't even wait for your change!

$177.05 US for that gun is a steal!

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 Post subject: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:09 am 
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I once owned an AyA M106 many years ago and my log book does not have pictures of some of the guns that I had in the '60's. However, my notes are clear that my gun did not have clipped barrels and had a Prince of Whales grip. Your gun has clipped barrels and the typical Spanish style pistol grip.

An old Blue book describes the M106 as "English style boxlock,double triggers,pistol grip,28" barrels. Disc. 1985".

There seems to be many conflicts here, however, this does not surprise me because AyA often made a small number of these lower grade guns for various distributors and for different markets. I agree with Roger Over Under that this gun was made for the European market, probably Germany.

So..... Yes it may well be a M106 and it is worth the asking price.

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 Post subject: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:11 am 
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I own an AYA YOEMAN that looks alot like that boxlock action. It does not have the GREENER crossbolt. I have handeled a AYA NO4. iT IS NOT A NO. 4. I also agree eith RODGER over under it is a EUROPEAN GUN.


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 Post subject: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:55 pm 
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Want to here something funny?
I have the exact same gun.
Same stampings everywhere minus the serial number
I'll attach a few pics.

Does anyone have any dea wha the value of these guns are? Its my rabbit gun I wouldn't want to wreck it if it is some sort of antique?

Who is the manufacturer? Any Idea of the model or year on mine?

My gun has two names etched into the top of the barrel,
One is Diana Enterprises of Canada

and the other is

either AYA or HYH

I believe AYA and it says
Aguirrre & Aranzaral

Image


Image

Image


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 Post subject: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:57 pm 
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Also the butplate has a large AYA logo.


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 Post subject: Re: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:44 am 
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jedimastermopar wrote:
Want to here something funny?
I have the exact same gun.


Certainly seems so! It was VERY similar, mine is apparently a bit newer than yours, but yours seems better kept than mine.

jedimastermopar wrote:
Same stampings everywhere minus the serial number
I'll attach a few pics.

Does anyone have any dea wha the value of these guns are? Its my rabbit gun I wouldn't want to wreck it if it is some sort of antique?


Apparently $177 isn't bad value.

jedimastermopar wrote:
Who is the manufacturer? Any Idea of the model or year on mine?


If you read the original posting of mine, you'll get lots of data - I've edited it as I got new data, so everything collected can be read out there.

There is also a lot of links throughout the replies. Please make note of the fact that the link color is pretty much identical to the standard text color in this forum, and the links aren't underlined. I find this rather idiotic, but that's how it is. Maybe another "theme" (color styles) will help. But this means that you'll have to "hunt" for the actual links (The word "links" is a link!).

Here's the original (top) post:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=118138

jedimastermopar wrote:
My gun has two names etched into the top of the barrel,
One is Diana Enterprises of Canada

and the other is

either AYA or HYH

I believe AYA and it says
Aguirrre & Aranzaral

AYA is the manufacturer, and Diana Enterprises is probably the importer, then?


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 Post subject: re: AyA SxS boxlock, please help ID and info!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:21 pm 
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In my mind the maker is AyA. Diana Enterprises probably was the importer. Still, the cross bolt has me stumped unless it was just a limited run, as I mentioned above.

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