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 Post subject: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:17 pm
Posts: 9
Location: California
If I have my unloaded shotgun in the trunk of my car where should I keep my ammo? Anywhere but the trunk of my car, right? If I understand the law it the two cannot be in the same locked container (i.e. the trunk of an automobile). If someone can help me out I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.




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 Post subject: re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:24 am
Posts: 536
this is from the California state web site:

California law is silent on the transportation of long guns (rifles and shotguns), but individuals are not required by law to transport long guns in a locked container. However, as with concealable firearms, carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun in public or in a vehicle is against the law.

as long as it's not loaded you can transport it any way you want.

for hand guns, you can put the gun in a locked case, or put the ammo in a locked ammo can and have both inside your trunk.

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 Post subject: re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:04 pm 
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Location: California
Thanks for the clarification.


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 Post subject: re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:13 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:14 pm
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Location: SoCal
All I've ever done was to case the gun and throw in the trunk!
The ammo will either be in the box it came with, my vest or what ever case/box/container I happen to be using at the time.
8)


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 Post subject: re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:37 am 
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yup. that's what I do.

Technically, you could drive around with a shotgun sitting on your rear deck, in plain view....or on the passenger's seat, or in a rack against the back window, or even walk down the street with it in full view. May not be smart in parts of CA, but as long as it's unloaded and you're not pointing/threatening anyone....totally legal.

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 Post subject: re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:38 pm
Posts: 190
Location: San Diego Ca.
blang is right on. Even a handgun can be in PLAIN SITE(unloaded) on your front seat as longs as the ammo is locked up in your trunk. Again, not a real good idea if your stopped by the police, they would probably make your day very unpleasant.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:12 am 
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 1:18 pm
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duckmart wrote:
blang is right on. Even a handgun can be in PLAIN SITE(unloaded) on your front seat as longs as the ammo is locked up in your trunk. Again, not a real good idea if your stopped by the police, they would probably make your day very unpleasant.


The hand gun needs to be locked up in a case or your trunk.


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 Post subject: re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:54 pm 
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Sorry blarg and duckmart....but California Penal Code Section 12026.1 a PC requires a handgun transported in a vehicle to be locked in a locked box or in the trunk :

"12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state.... from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:

(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment."



Any rifle or shotgun, as long as it is unloaded, can be transported or possessed as long as it is in plain sight and unloaded...in California. Handguns must be transported, in a vehicle, in a locked box that fully encloses the firearm, or locked in the trunk, a locked glove box is not legal.

There is no specific law requiring the ammo and gun must be transported seperately, other than, the ammo cannot be attached to the gun (rifle, pistol, handgun) in any manner. Attached would be a loaded mag inserted into a gun...for example or a loaded mag taped to the gun.

It is also legal in california to have a holstered handgun on your belt (outside of a vehicle) as long as it is in plain view and unloaded. You could also have a loaded mag in your pocket.

If you had a shotgun or rifle in plain view in the passenger compartment of your car and had shotshells in a carrier mounted to the stock or frame of the shotgun, you would be in violation of a misdemeanor, carrying a loaded gun in public. Same would go for a rifle in a window rack that had rounds on a stock carrier or in ammo loops in the sling. Same if you wee walking down the street with these guns in the same condition. However, walk down the street with an unloaded rifle and a pocket full of ammo you are legal.

Now, if you have the UNLOADED shotgun or rifle in plain view inside the passenger compartment of a vehicle and the ammo for it in your pocket, or on the same seat as the gun...you are legal.

These are how the laws read in California. Now, I don't reccommend you do any of the above, but they are perfectly legal. You may make people and law officers nervous. If you do the above, you will likely be removed from your vehicle at gunpoint and handcuffed until the situation is investigated. Not fun...expect a delay. Officers also have the right to inspect your guns possessed in public or in a vehicle to confirm they are unloaded.

See CA Penal Code Section 12025 PC, below:

12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.......

(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
within the meaning of this section.


A few interesting sections for shooters, hunters, outdoorsman:12026.2. (a) Section 12025 (Carrying a conceled weapon) does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
.....

(3) The transportation of a firearm by a participant when going directly to, or coming directly from, a recognized safety or hunter safety class, or a recognized sporting event involving that firearm.

5) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a fixed place of business or
private residential property for the purpose of the lawful repair or the lawful transfer, sale, or loan of that firearm.

(6) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section
12026 when going directly from the place where that person lawfully received that firearm to that person's place of residence or place of business or to private property owned or lawfully possessed by that person.

(7) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show, swap meet, or
similar event to which the public is invited, for the purpose of
displaying that firearm in a lawful manner.

(9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a regulatory or business license, for the purposes of practicing
shooting at targets with that firearm at that target range.


(11) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a lawful camping activity for
the purpose of having that firearm available for lawful personal
protection while at the lawful campsite.

What those last few sections mean is that if you are doing one of those enumerated functions you are exempt from the locked box requirement for your handgun that IS being used for those enumerated functions, i.e. going to or from Hunter Safety or Firearme safety class, sporting firearms event, sale loan, public gun show, or transfer of the gun, licensed gun range for practice, or camping in a lawful campsite.

I seem to always have targets, ammo, earplugs, sleeping bag, tent in my car in my vehicle...I am always going to or from the range.....or to or from a camping activity...huh...
Lastly, firearms are considered loaded in California when:

12031 PC

(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:17 am 
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Location: It is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs. He does not have to. (1931)
Transporting an unloaded, unconcealed shotgun, not in a locked container, would be legal in California, as long as you are not within 1000' of a school zone. Transporting a shotgun in an unlocked container or under a blanket, etc. would require a California C.C.W. license.

Kentucky honors any California C.C.W. license, as well as all other states Permits/Licenses. Thirty-three states have reciprocity with Kentucky, but California does not. There would be an interim period after moving to California before a C.C.W. could be issued to me. It seemed to me that transporting a legal-length unloaded, unconcealed shotgun (with or without a stock) with a side-saddle of shells (which could be placed in a locked, armored, bolted-down container when I am not in the vehicle) might not violate the C.P.C.

I found these summaries of the California definition of "loaded" firearm, based on the case law of People v. Clark superceding C.P.C. 12031(g):
- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=103660
- http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/24635.html

"The penal code definition of loaded has been slightly modified by People v. Clark. Case law does not change the text of the penal code. The text of the penal code can only be changed by the legislature. But case law is law, regardless. That's how our system works."

"Yes, ammunition may be carried in the same container as the gun – loose ammunition or ammunition in ammo boxes does not make a gun loaded, because the ammunition is NOT 'placed into a position from which it can be fired.'
"Yes, you may transport loaded magazines and speed loaders, so long as they are not inserted into the magazine well or cylinder of the firearm. That does not make a gun loaded, because the ammunition carried that way is NOT 'placed into a position from which it can be fired.'
"No, a loaded magazine is not the same as a loaded weapon, and possession of a weapon and a loaded magazine for that weapon does not, necessarily, mean you have a loaded weapon.
"So, following Clark, loaded means 'a firearm is loaded when a shell or cartridge has been placed into a position from which it can be fired.' This is NOT restricted to shotguns. NEW CASE LAW COULD CHANGE THIS – again, consult your own paid attorney for specifics regarding any legal action."

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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:30 pm 
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Intersting question, I drive a s.u.v no trunk, I go clay pidgeon shooting often, usually throw my launcher in the back...two to three five gallon buckets of 12 gauge and .410 and five or six shotguns depending on who is going. been stopped many times (usually for speeding) and have never ever been harrased, Now granted in south central L.A or compton you maybe legal but your going to have a hard time of it.... out on the road just be smart about it and respectful to the public and responsable, Never ever will have an issue, Hell i had a CHP follow me to the range and waited for me to set up and shot a round before leaving with a smile. Me i smiled as well (no ticket) so as with the above post all very informative and I thank you all for the information great to know from my experiance like i said just be smart. keep shootin {RO {RO {RO {RO

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 Post subject: Re: re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 96
For the love of Pete! Where do you people get your information from? I've never seen such a freakishly wrong thread continue for so long without somebody who knows CA law speaking up.

blarg wrote:
for hand guns, you can put the gun in a locked case, or put the ammo in a locked ammo can and have both inside your trunk.

Negative. You can have ammo or even loaded mags in the same locked container as long as the mags are not in the gun (ref. 12025, 12026.1, 12031, and People v. Clark)

duckmart wrote:
blang is right on. Even a handgun can be in PLAIN SITE(unloaded) on your front seat as longs as the ammo is locked up in your trunk.

Negative. There is no requirement to separate the ammo from the gun. The only place the ammo can't be is attached to the gun in a fireable position. Even then the restriction only applies within the jurisdiction of 12031.

870supermag wrote:
The hand gun needs to be locked up in a case or your trunk.

Negative. This is only a requirement within 1000' of a school and even then there is a laundry list of exceptions.

CRWDDYZ wrote:
Sorry blarg and duckmart....but California Penal Code Section 12026.1 a PC requires a handgun transported in a vehicle to be locked in a locked box or in the trunk :


Negative. 12026.1 is an exception to 12025 not a separate requirement. You cannot be charged with a violation of 12026, 12026.1, or 12026.2.

Quote:
Handguns must be transported, in a vehicle, in a locked box that fully encloses the firearm, or locked in the trunk, a locked glove box is not legal.


Negative. Handguns can be transported in that manner or they may be transported openly so long as you are not in a school zone (626.9). In order to violate 12025 you have to conceal the thing.

Quote:
Attached would be... a loaded mag taped to the gun.

Negative. People v. Clark. The mag would have to be inserted into the gun.

Quote:
It is also legal in california to have a holstered handgun on your belt (outside of a vehicle) as long as it is in plain view and unloaded.

Negative. You can have it openly holstered in a vehicle too.

Quote:
If you had a shotgun or rifle in plain view in the passenger compartment of your car and had shotshells in a carrier mounted to the stock or frame of the shotgun, you would be in violation of a misdemeanor, carrying a loaded gun in public.

Negative. People v Clark. The case actually dealt with a shotgun with shells attached to the butt stock.

Quote:
Same would go for a rifle in a window rack that had rounds on a stock carrier or in ammo loops in the sling. Same if you wee walking down the street with these guns in the same condition.

Negative again for the same reason as above.

Quote:
If you do the above, you will likely be removed from your vehicle at gunpoint and handcuffed until the situation is investigated. Not fun...expect a delay. Officers also have the right to inspect your guns possessed in public or in a vehicle to confirm they are unloaded.

Kinda. Thanks to a recent federal court ruling you also have solid grounds to sue for aggravated assault if they do that. They have the right to inspect but not detain. Only if you refuse inspection can they detain and arrest you. Pointing a gun at somebody without reasonable cause to believe that a violent crime is in progress is aggravated assault - even if you have a shiny badge.

Quote:
What those last few sections mean is that if you are doing one of those enumerated functions you are exempt from the locked box requirement for your handgun that IS being used for those enumerated functions, i.e. going to or from Hunter Safety or Firearme safety class, sporting firearms event, sale loan, public gun show, or transfer of the gun, licensed gun range for practice, or camping in a lawful campsite.

Negative. Now your going to get somebody arrested. You are forgetting paragraph (b):

(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Quote:
Lastly, firearms are considered loaded in California when:

12031 PC

(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.


Read People v. Clark if you want to know what "attached in any manner" means. If it is not condition 1, 2, or 3 it is not loaded.

wfb18 wrote:
Transporting an unloaded, unconcealed shotgun, not in a locked container, would be legal in California, as long as you are not within 1000' of a school zone.

Negative. 626.9 "does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in accordance with state law". (ref. 626.9(c)(2))

Quote:
Transporting a shotgun in an unlocked container or under a blanket, etc. would require a California C.C.W. license.

Negative. Even a pistol grip only shotgun with a 18.5" barrel has been ruled not concealable with the meaning of 12025.

Quote:
Kentucky honors any California C.C.W. license, as well as all other states Permits/Licenses. Thirty-three states have reciprocity with Kentucky, but California does not. There would be an interim period after moving to California before a C.C.W. could be issued to me. It seemed to me that transporting a legal-length unloaded, unconcealed shotgun (with or without a stock) with a side-saddle of shells (which could be placed in a locked, armored, bolted-down container when I am not in the vehicle) might not violate the C.P.C.

Getting a CCW in most of CA is a crap shoot. If you are interested in sub CCW options there is an entire forum for that at opencarry.org.

Quote:
I found these summaries of the California definition of "loaded" firearm, based on the case law of People v. Clark superceding C.P.C. 12031(g):
- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=103660
- http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/24635.html

"The penal code definition of loaded has been slightly modified by People v. Clark. Case law does not change the text of the penal code. The text of the penal code can only be changed by the legislature. But case law is law, regardless. That's how our system works."

"Yes, ammunition may be carried in the same container as the gun – loose ammunition or ammunition in ammo boxes does not make a gun loaded, because the ammunition is NOT 'placed into a position from which it can be fired.'
"Yes, you may transport loaded magazines and speed loaders, so long as they are not inserted into the magazine well or cylinder of the firearm. That does not make a gun loaded, because the ammunition carried that way is NOT 'placed into a position from which it can be fired.'
"No, a loaded magazine is not the same as a loaded weapon, and possession of a weapon and a loaded magazine for that weapon does not, necessarily, mean you have a loaded weapon.
"So, following Clark, loaded means 'a firearm is loaded when a shell or cartridge has been placed into a position from which it can be fired.' This is NOT restricted to shotguns. NEW CASE LAW COULD CHANGE THIS – again, consult your own paid attorney for specifics regarding any legal action."

Most of this is correct. The case law did not change the written law, it interpreted a phrase in the law (specifically what is meant by "attached to in any manner"). The term attached was defined for the relevant sections as meaning placed into a position from which it could be fired. New case law can expand on that definition, but can not change it without reversing the previous decision. That type of reversal is unlikely since a person relying on that case law for a definition would then be able to appeal the law itself as being unconstitutional vague.

Finally to answer the OP succinctly, you can have your shotgun anywhere in or out of the vehicle and have ammo anywhere except in the chamber or attached magazine of the shotgun.


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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 1:26 pm
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Location: NorCal
What I like to carry, unlocked and in my jacket pocket, is John Machtinger's book, "How to Own a Gun and Stay Out of Jail" from http://www.gunlawpress.com/ For only $15 shipped, it's a real bargain. The other resource I trust is the CalGuns Wiki... http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ

Both sources deal quite ably with issues related to carrying and transporting handguns and long guns, in California.

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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:30 am 
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Ok so if I have my shotgun in a hard plastic case that is closed but not locked ... And the gun has no lock on it ..... That's fine right?

Or if I have it in a closed concealed case with on lock on the case then the gun has to have a lock on it?

Wanting to get concrete clarification on this so I know how to transport my shotgun to the range and home.


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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:02 am 
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falconman515 wrote:
Ok so if I have my shotgun in a hard plastic case that is closed but not locked ... And the gun has no lock on it ..... That's fine right?

Or if I have it in a closed concealed case with on lock on the case then the gun has to have a lock on it?

Wanting to get concrete clarification on this so I know how to transport my shotgun to the range and home.


Three important things have happened since my last post:

- Open carry of handguns was banned
- Open carry of longuns was banned
- Sections of the penal code relevant to firearms were renumbered

I haven't dug into the details, so I can't advise other than saying to disregard old info. Get yourself over to CalGuns.net, and ask on the 2nd amendment politics and legal sub board. Ask there, and you will get the details from people that have nothing better to do than read the law day in day out.


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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:58 am 
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Ya I thought the info I read on this was different then what I have heard ... I think you have to have a lock on it at all times now when transporting.

Gonna have to find this out ... I know that I just bought my new Beretta A300 from Dick's today and they will not even let you leave the store with it without buying a lock ... or if you buy a lock it has to be within the last 30 days and you have to have the receipt.

Hmmm ... very interested in what the new laws are now on shotgun transporting.


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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:35 am 
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Gun locks or cable locks does not help when transpoting. You need a padlock to lock the gun case in GFZ.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:40 pm 
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bigalt wrote:
Gun locks or cable locks does not help when transpoting. You need a padlock to lock the gun case in GFZ.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


So are saying that's the law when transporting a shotgun?


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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:38 pm 
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After reading this entire page, I have NO idea of what the law is.................and I'm not about to ask for clarification........................


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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:54 pm 
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CheckmateJasper wrote:
After reading this entire page, I have NO idea of what the law is.................and I'm not about to ask for clarification........................


Every guy here does it that lives in CA.

Even if it's not the law what does everyone do here? Do you have a lock on the gun? a lock on the case? both? no lock at all? .....? ......? .......?


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 Post subject: Re: Driving in CA with a shotgun - question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Just call the CHP. County Sheriff, or City Police. They may have websites that will answer this relatively common question. You could also ask the owner of your local gun shop.

I live in Kentucky where laws are, well shall we say, a bit more reasonable.

If you just want to be safe. Put your unloaded shotgun in a locked case, and put that case in the trunk. Put your ammunition in a locked case, and put that case in the trunk. Then lock your trunk.

When I drive from state to state I put my unloaded shotgun in a locked case. I own a hatchback, so there is no trunk, I just put the case in the back well away from anywhere I could even remotely think of being able to reach. Shells stay in their cardboard boxes also in the back.



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