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 Post subject: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:18 am 
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As I understand it the shotguns must have external hammers in order to participate.

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:30 pm 
Actually, I believe any gun or representative made before 1897 are eligible. I have seen Winchester 97s and hammerless SxSs at shoots. 97s are limited to two shots and there may be different classes (Original, Replica, etc) which would have further restrictions on the guns used. uglydog


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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:30 am 
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The Baikal, for example. only looks like it has hammers. In reality they merely act as cocking levers.

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:55 am 
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Pummper, dude, buddy, look at the Baikal again. Click here for a great SxS gun They used to be just cocking hammers for safety reasons, then Baikal found an internal block system that could provide the same safety benifit as a cocking only hammer and give it's customers a true hammer which is what they asked for. Baikal is a very large gun manufacture that has been building guns for a very long time. Baikal is very popular over the pond and known for quality there. Baikal got where it is today (sales in every major world market) by listening to it's customers and providing the features asked for. They, like me, think a guns function and reliability is more important that the type of varnish on the stock.
Pumper you and I have always had fun going back and forth. Please try and put some efforts into the stuff you try and pass off as fact. A half truth is still not a truth at all.

(Pummper and I love to take friendly shots at each other, I know pummper will find a way to take a shot at me in responce to this comment, maybe not here and now but some day somewhere when i least expect it. It is the price we pay for being two oposing and euqalling outspoken mules) 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:58 pm 
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Any idea how much one of those Baikais cost? I really . REALLY want a sxs but they are real expensive. im actually looking at the new stevens 411 as my first one.

I know its not the best but money's an issue. and so is my wife :? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:00 pm 
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I did not mean it as a knock at the Baikal, merely as an aexample that looks are the important criteria for CAS guns.

Gordon, I'll meet you in the middle ground. I'll agree to hunt for a whole season with a Baikal as long as you agree to pay for it. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:04 pm 
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I think that Baikal sxs with external hammers runs about $350-400. If you can find them. Norinco sells a sxs with ext. hammers for around $200, and they sell lots of them around here at "Big 5" Sporting goods. They are fair shooters, but what I really like about mine is, I don't worry about shooting Black powder through it. So far it's cleaned up quick and easy, but, I'm not scared about having something corrosive in the bore. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:03 am 
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Pumper I'd love to buy you one, but if I could afford a new gun of any price right now it'd be for me. I have my eye on that lotto though, I win you get a new Baikal and a new Saiga! I'll even have a poly choke put on the Saiga for that "extra cool" look 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:50 am 
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To tell the truth, I have been giving the Truglo Titan adjustable choke a long hard look for my 870 SM. I will probably spend that money on other guns but just maybe on one of those new-fangled polychokes.

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:31 pm 
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Gordon,
If you hit the Lotto, I'm personally flying to Wisconsin and keeping you out of the Baikal Store. To use a tired saying:
Friends don't let RICH friends shoot Baikal.
I'll kidnap you and take you to a Beretta Gallery.

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 6:10 pm 
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does Anybody use those copies of the Winchester Lever Action Shotgun at CAS events?


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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:23 pm 
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:shock: i've been around sass for several years shotguns for many years and am amazed at Americans buying all this foreign junk when there are lots of American used sideXsides and real Win 97s in the auction houses on the wwweb.Don't you guys have any class at all?Is the fact that a gun is NEW and pretty attract you and your money??Can't you realize that the western folks used guns that were not new in 99% of the time.You all are looking like a bunch of pimps or madams with your shiny silver guns and easterners fancy duds.The western cowboy was about the poorest of the poor with only a spare shirt in his blanket roll for special shindigs.Not by the look of all the roosters you see at the shoots.They would laugh themselves silly seeing all the fops running around trying to act like real men when in fact look like school kids on dress up day.
It could be why I seldom look forward to getting to the shoots these days.I guess you all are right and I'm too much of a historian for the game as it is becomming.Maybe one day reality will once again raise it's head and all this phoney stuff will subside.I HOPE SO.modoc

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:12 am 
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modoc wrote:
:shock: i.Don't you guys have any class at all?Is the fact that a gun is NEW and pretty attract you and your money??Can't you realize that the western folks used guns that were not new in 99% of the time.You all are looking like a bunch of pimps or madams with your shiny silver guns and easterners fancy duds.


Tsk, tsk. :( I've found Cowboy shoots to be places where lots of people are having lots of fun. Some shooters are more historically accurate than others, to be sure. However, I think a reasoned discussion of the benefits of historical detail would convince people better than does name calling.

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:08 am 
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:D Jeff as moderator,you have a job to do that requires you to be at all times mderate in your language.Respect is awarded to you for that. I on the other hand, am not reigned in by those standards.Being well over 60 allows me at long last to be absolutely honest in my assessment of questions posed in this and other forums. The fact that I revel in the task should not raise doubt of my sincerety to get folks heads on straight.I have found in my life that sweet talk is soon forgotten,but torment is long lasting.As a young student,long ago,I found that unless a teacher challanged me to higher achievement, I seldom produced what I was mentally capable of.So taking that as a model,I challange youth to THINK,rather than FEEL.Be their own person rather than be a CLONE of someone else.It might seen wrongheaded to some ,but it works for me.I'm really surprised at the lack of backlash so far,but it is sure to come.We'll see.Thanks for your concern,modoc. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:23 pm 
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8) Do I detect the aroma of "OLD GRUMP" aftershave around here? Give 'em heck, old timer!///lol, olde pharte/// :lol: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:28 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Modoc,
I have seen this name on other boards from time to time and I take some offense at the attitude you have displayed. While I must agree that 'cowboys' could not afford NEW firearms generally, we are not living in the 19th century. While you tend to rubbish the 'imports', there are a number of manufactures in the world producing top quality firearms that will surpass those made in the US (these same manufacturers produce some garbage there as well). As to being able to get used at auction houses etc, not everyone can afford this even today. Some of those '97s and '87s are getting hefty money. What are a bunch of "madams and pimps" expected to do?. In my opinion (and you can take it for exactly what you paid for it), these people get what they can afford and use what they are able and we have FUN doing it. That is the way I did it. So has my son, daughter and most recently, my wife. My son and I have been doing this sport since 1996. A short time in the realm of things.

We SASS people know it is a fantasy sport. 90% of the outfits worn are an interpretation based on what WE feel at the time. It is NOT reality and we accept that.

If you have shot CAS and did not have fun, you are the one approaching it all wrong or perhaps NCOWS would suit you better.

Any s x s can be used so long as it does not have ejectors and has a minimum barrel length of 18" and is between 20g and 10g. They can be hammerless or hammered - your choice. '97s and '87s are allowed or replicas thereof. Smokeless or BP loads.

Kindest regards and if I have offended any body, I hope you accept my sincerest apology.

Jake


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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2004 5:23 am 
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External hammers are not required for CAS. Guns must be of pre 1899 design and there were hammerless shotguns back then. In fact, many in CAS use SxS hammerless.

You'll see, hammers and hammerless SxS, you'll see Winchester 1897 pumps, Marlin 1897s, Winchester 1887 levers...and all their clones that are on the market these days

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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2004 1:19 pm 
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Modoc,
Consider this; If a cowboy had a choice between a $400 well used Winchester that would need a bit of gunsmithing work to "get the job done" or a brand new $200 import that didn't need any work, which do you think he would pick? What if cowboys had access to stainless steel weapons? You'd have to be a fool to think they wouldn't jump all over a stainless revolver. Remember, not all pimps and madams were rich, just as not all cowboys were poor. Like you said, "THINK rather than FEEL".

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:23 pm 
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Hi Pards,

While this is only my second post on this site I have been a Cowboy Action Shooter for almost seven years now.

As to the question of what is a typical CAS shotgun? Well they are as varied as each individual wants to them be. Hammered-type shotguns in SxS configuration are only required if you want to shoot in the Classic category. They must be SxS, and have external hammers. They also have to be extractors only- no ejectors. The Classic shooter also has to have their main match rifle and pistols chambered in .40 caliber and above, ie, .38WCF, 44WCF, .44SP, .44MAG, and .45LC. Rifle calibers such as the good old .30-30, .38-55 and such are restricted to long range events only. The Classic shooter must also wear a combination of certain items such as scarf, spurs, watch & chain, chaps, vest, at least five of these items must be worn the entire match including awards. It is a neat category.

As to the other categories (not classes as in other shooting sports) you may use any SASS legal shotgun. SxS's by pretty much any manufacturer in whatever barrel length you choose. You may use a 18" coachgun or bring out that old 30" barreled gun your G'pa shot. A lot of folks use SxS's because of the ease in which they are loaded. All stages start with empty shotguns and you load on the clock. This is a FANTASY SPORT, year of SxS manufacture is not as important as looks.

Some people like pump shotguns. The Winchester Mod. '97 is the predominant gun. Some folks have the Mod. '93 and a few like the old Marlin "Widowmaker" pump. The pumps can only be loaded with two rounds at a time like the SxS's. Don't think it's slow though, we have shooters that can single load and shoot six rounds in under 5 seconds.

Then there is the old classic beauty, the Mod 1887 Lever shotgun. It has become more prevalent in the last few years since the Black Powder category has gained interest.

Being a Match Director with the oldest CAS club in Arizona, all I care is that the shotgun you bring to one of my matches meets the SASS criteria, I don't care how pretty or ugly it is or where it was made. Oh, and you have to have fun second only to being safe. To quote a dear CAS friend that just passed, "If you aren't having fun, go home".

I'd be happy to help answer any more questions you might have.

Safe trails,
CKid


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 Post subject: Re: Typical CAS shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:17 pm 
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I use a Baikal/EAA Bounty Hunter II and a Baikal IZH43 28" both with internal hammers, if you're going to shoot SASS, only the Classic Cowboy Class REQUIRES external hammers, I bought my Baikals for $275 and $200 respectively, both new.

The baikals are kind of rough, but they can easily be cleaned up by you if you put the time into them, mine's really smooth now, replace a few springs here and there, smooth up the cylinders and a few other parts and you've got a gun just as smooth as any browning or Rossi ever thought about being, not to mention their "a little rough" appearance gives them a neat look for CAS.

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