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 Post subject: Skeet vs. Trap Chokes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:34 pm
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Hey All,

So I've been shooting sporting clays for the past 2 months with my Browning BPS 12 and decided to try my hand at skeet and trap. I did pretty good for my first time w/skeet, 18/25 and 17/25. Not so good with trap though 11/25 :(

What choke would you recommend for trap. For skeet I was using improved cylinder and it seemed to be working really well. With trap, I was shooting with modified. It may have been my shooting, but maybe my choke selection for trap was not the best? Any advice? Thanks!

-Pino




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 Post subject: re: Skeet vs. Trap Chokes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:52 am 
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Location: Salt Lake. Unless I'm off shooting....
From the 16 yard line, a skeet choke will work fine. So will IC and LM. I don't think I'd go tighter than LM for 16 yards though. What matters most is what YOUR shells are doing in YOUR gun through YOUR chokes. Take it out to a patterning board and see which choke you like best for whatever distance you're going to be shooting. That's the only way to really know, if you must know.

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 Post subject: re: Skeet vs. Trap Chokes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:30 am 
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I feel that you should not use a more open choke than Modified for 16 yard trap. I like to use Improved Modified. What kind of shells were you using? Brand? Type discount/target? Amount of shot? Dram Equivalent or speed?

Do shoot some patterns at 35 yards, to check the Point of Impact and shot density.

I hope you were not trying to maintain a lead on the trap target. You should be shooting using the swing through techinque, since you do not know what the angle the target will take.

Are you shooting with 2 eyes open?

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 Post subject: Re: re: Skeet vs. Trap Chokes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:25 pm 
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waverider wrote:
I feel that you should not use a more open choke than Modified for 16 yard trap. I like to use Improved Modified. What kind of shells were you using? Brand? Type discount/target? Amount of shot? Dram Equivalent or speed?

Do shoot some patterns at 35 yards, to check the Point of Impact and shot density.

I hope you were not trying to maintain a lead on the trap target. You should be shooting using the swing through techinque, since you do not know what the angle the target will take.

Are you shooting with 2 eyes open?


why such a tight choke, especially at 16 yds?...IMO, I would want a nice large pattern to offset any mistake I might make....my best ever trap score, ( the amount of times you can count on one hand), was a 24 with my 28 gauge, 8-1/2's and a skeet choke...my worst was an 8 with my 12 and a mod choke


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 Post subject: re: Skeet vs. Trap Chokes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:16 pm
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Location: Long Island, NY
Chokes 101:

The original purpose of choke was to extend the range of a shotgun. There are five main degrees of choke. Cylinder, Improved Cylinder, Modified, Improvied Modified and Full. Chokes are defined in a couple of ways. The most common is as a percentage of the load that can be expected to be inside a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.

Next is by points of constriction at the muzzle of the shotgun. This method is not as accurate as the previous method, since the pattern can be altered by one's choice of load. It is very possible to get cylinder through IM performance out of an IC barrel just by playing with the load.

The best way to understand choke is to understand its original intent. A cylinder bored gun should deliver about a 70% pattern at about 20 yards. IC will do the same at 25, Mod at 30, IM at 35 and Full at 40. Anyway, that was the old standard. Things have changed since I started playing with shotguns, and with today's high quality ammuntion, you can expect to extend those yardages by another 5 yards for each degree of choke. Keep in mind that skeet choke is something of a red haired stepchild. Slightly tighter than cylinder, skeet chokes are supposed to deliver an even (as even as possible) 80% pattern at 21 yards.

To complicate matters a little more, consider that a given choke should be optimum at 5 yards before and 10 yards after the range where it produces a 70% pattern. That's the theory. Unfortunately, it doesn't really work out that way. The more open chokes will hold together a little longer than the 10 yards. Tighter chokes tend not to.

Each barrel and choke combination is an individual and should be treated as such. You need to get to the pattern board and test your gun with various loads. Then, when you think you've got a winner, test it at the range it was intended for (i.e. 25 yards for IC). Then test it five yards before and five and ten yards after that range.

Frank


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 Post subject: re: Skeet vs. Trap Chokes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:30 pm 
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1onceload,

Trap shooting is a game of perfection. Once you have the basics down, it comes down to your mental focus. By having a tight choke you know you have very little room for error and if you point perfectly you will get very good breaks. If you are not getting solid breaks, ie breaks with a lot of pieces, you know that you are not centering the target and must increase you focus to avoid any lost targets.

I used to practice with IM and shoot Mod when it counted. I found that I shot better with IM and 1 1/8 oz of shot. So I now practice with a Full and shoot an IM when it counts. My 100 straights were all with an IM choke.

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 Post subject: re: Skeet vs. Trap Chokes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:25 pm
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The main reason for seemingly tighter chokes in trap than some of the other games is because you are shooting edge on presentations. You need a dense pattern both because the target itself is harder to break and it presents less surface area. A 16 yard singles target is shot by most shooters at about 35 yards. For that reason, I would definitely not go more open than an modified (.020) for trap singles with IM (.025) preferred. I am not saying you can't break it with a more open choke, but in the long run the couple of extra targets you might pick up on the fringes of the pattern will be offset by the number that slip through holes in your pattern. At least that is the conventional wisdom and I have to agree with after seeing lots of trap targets dusted and not broken over the years.

My current trap gun has a fixed lt full choke (.030), so I have no choice. I use an LM (.015) for first shot of doubles which is essentially nothing more than a singles target but since it is going in a known direction, I shoot it at a much closer distance than a normal trap singles target. I have tried this barrel at normal 16 yard singles, but did not like the results for the reasons stated above.


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 Post subject: re: Skeet vs. Trap Chokes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:46 pm 
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Your skeet scores are very good for your first outing. It is pretty clear that you were able to apply your sporting clay knowledge to the skeet field.
Your poorer scores in trap might be related to the point of impact of the BPS. I assume it is a field gun...Field guns tend to shoot 50/50 or 55/45 point of impacts. That works pretty good for skeet, but for trap, because the target is rising, a higher point of impact such as 70/30 tends to work better. It is possible that you were shooting under some of the targets. Next time out, you might try covering the bird with the barrel and see if that improves your percentage.


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 Post subject: re: Skeet vs. Trap Chokes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:13 pm 
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I would suggest you use a 25" circle at 35 yds when patterning your gun instead of 30". I also use IM choke from 16 to 23 and F from 24 to 27. I would practice with F or even XF to sharpen your concentration. I see plenty of guy's using IC from 16 and they get numerous misses from holes in the pattern. I agree that different guns like different loads (check pattern with more then one type of load) but I suggest you use premium ammo. 1oz is plenty from 16 yd and 1200 FPS is also plenty fast but thats open to a lot of different opinions. I found that if you shoot well with a particular load and have confidence in it stay with it, they're all good.




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