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 Post subject: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:29 am 
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I was wondering if anybody was familiar with Brno/CZ shotguns ?? I found one and purchased it today I think it is from about the 1970s (I'm guessing) , it has true sidelocks , sling swivels , continental style cheek piece , 12 ga. 28 3/8" barrels , double triggers , weighs 7 lbs. , it's about 95% and I got a great deal on it . It has "Special Poldi Elektro" on one barrel and "Made in Czechoslovakia" on the other and the chokes are marked 17.6X17.8 what ever that means . Any info would be appreciated . Thanks


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 Post subject: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:27 am 
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From all I have heard, it's a GOOD gun. The sidelocks are modern in design, with coil springs. Nothing wrong there.

The markings on the barrels are European choke designations in millimeters. The normal barrel diameters should be marked somewhere, in also in millimeters.

Convert them to inches, then you will know the bore reduction for the chokes, and you can compare this to bore reductions for standard chokes and have an indication.

BobK

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 Post subject: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:34 pm 
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Location: Middle Tennessee
I use to have one. It was very well made, I thought. I think a lot of people don't realize that CZ used to make their own shotguns in Brno, Czechoslovakia. The choke markings are in millimeters and are equivalent to mod/full.


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 Post subject: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:39 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Is it a s/s?, if it is, it sounds like it might be a ZP49.

Czech guns were very common here from the 1970's through the early 1990's.

I had a pretty good raport with some folks at the Canadian importer back then and owned a few of their products.

There were two separate factories, Zbrojovka Brno, founded 1918, in the town of Brno and Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) at Uhersky Brod, founded in 1936.

Both made shotguns and rifles but CZ seemed to be more into rifles and Brno more into shotguns.

Under th communist system, both maker's were exported here under the name "Brno"; I understand the thought was that that name was older and more recognized by buyers in the west. '

The communists were not real marketing whiz's though and did not bring new developments like choke tubes into the line, even though they Brno factory would have likely done a good job on them. They also insisted on making target models with auto safeties, not a good selling point to the average Canadian or U.S. clay target shooter.

The guns were VERY solid, traditionally made of machined steel and walnut. I'm sure the communists dumped them here, you could buy one of these solid, European style s/s for not much more than the cost of a Wingmaster in the 1970's.

With the fall of communism, Brno did not do well in the transition to a market ecconomy, CZ did and that is the name we see today on the excellent rifles, my CZ ZKK 600 .30-06 shoots MOA with factory ammo, for example.

Cz has recently bought the remaining assest of the old Brno factory and are said to be developing the brand for marketing Czech produced shotguns although I have not seen any announcements about making the older stuff like the s/s so far.

As a parting note on the communist days, the importer employed mostly Canadians including gunsmiths that were sent on training sessions to the factories but they always had a Czech in charge of the facitiy. The Czech's were rotated out every few years.

I was told in the late 1970's that these people did not want to return after setting into Canada for a few years. Seems they grew to like their color TV's, barbeques and Buick's, things not common at home in the communist days (I expect this has changed now). Perhaps it was our own small contribution to the fall of communism, corrupting these folks :wink: :lol:


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 Post subject: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:36 pm 
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Thanks for the Info guys . After reading these posts I believe my SxS shotgun was proofed in 1960 and I think it does have full and mod choked barrels and it has the CZ trademark on the rib and on the flats as I remember . I should mention that I am a QA inspector and often times I'm not especially impressed with guns that I look at but You are right about the quality of these guns , they are crafted beautifully and the metal work is amazing . I really am just discovering these guns , I've always been a fan of CZ guns and even their Motocross bikes , their rifles and commercial mauser actions are some of the best and CZ 75 pistols are lengendary and are still used in top level competition , but these shotguns are like a well kept secret and I'm going to start watching for them . I saw pictures of gr8days Brno that he had for sale and it was a higher grade gun than mine with lots of engraving , I wish I had seen that before so I could have bought it . I wondered how he could sell such a fine gun , I really believe these guns are way under valued . I checked GunsAmerica , ect. and found one like mine but not in nearly as nice of condition as mine for $995.00 , I wouldn't hesitate to pay twice that for the quality and features that you are getting like true sidelocks that are like works of art craftsmenship wise and ejectors and double triggers , excellent finishing of both wood and metal and perfect fitting , what a great value . I have a question , I have only seen 12 ga. guns were they made available in other gauges ?? Thanks Again Guys !! Don


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 Post subject: Re: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:52 pm 
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stratoliner wrote:
I have only seen 12 ga. guns were they made available in other gauges ??


16g, it used to be very popular in central Europe, maybe it still is.

The various ZP s/s were introduced between 1945 and 1950.

From my memory, I believe they dissappeared from production in the early to mid 1990's.


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 Post subject: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:18 pm 
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I thought of something that I forgot to mention or ask about . Did you guys notice the 3rd locking bolt ? It is hidden in receiver face and locks up against or on top the barrel extension that ejectors are aligned by . The wedge like bolt is located in a milled out area just above and in between the firing pin bushings and retracts when you open the lever and then moves foward locking down the barrel extention when the action is closed and the lever moves back to center. It locks the gun up like a Greener cross bolt does .


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 Post subject: Re: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:24 am 
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stratoliner wrote:
I saw pictures of gr8days Brno that he had for sale and it was a higher grade gun than mine with lots of engraving , I wish I had seen that before so I could have bought it . I wondered how he could sell such a fine gun


It was a nice gun, but I just wasn't fond of the cheekpiece. Also the ejectors were a little balky (I disclosed this to the buyer). It was a ZP-149 with "stamped" engraving and nicer wood than the ZP-49. They both have features of much more expensive guns (Purdey underbite with hidden third fastener, cocking indicators, sidelocks, Anson latch).


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 Post subject: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:47 pm 
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The BRNO, also known as Skoda or Slavia in Europe, is a good, honest sidelock. One word of caution though, the sidelocks are simplified and have no intercepting safeties or rebound action. Wish I had not sold mine.

Oh, and the barrels are gunine chopper lump (demiblock).


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 Post subject: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:46 pm 
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Thank you guys for the info , I really do appreciate it . I'll tell I don't think I will ever sell this gun . I should explain that I am a Aerospace QA inspector presently and have been a tool maker , machinist and a custom sporting goods manufacturer and I am pretty anal about product quality and I have to say I don't know if I have ever seen nicer metal work and finish on any guns that were affordable for the average guy , absolutely no machine marks and every inch of the metal on this gun is polished and blued to a high lustre . This gun was proofed in 1960 and it has one little dent in the wood that I think I saw happen at Cabela's and other than that the checkering is sharp as new and no indication any real wear anywhere on the gun not even the sling swivels or triggers and it's like a Bank vault tight , it even has a smoothness to the action , triggers and safety activation thats like glassy smooth . The break lever is at about 5:30 to 6:00 o:clock so I think it must have been shot . The wood looks exactly like light colored french walnut that was so popular in the 60's and has a few nice dark streaks and a little fiddle back for decoration , the finish is the old original finish but still looks nice but old , I think a little wax will perk it right up . This is without doubt some of the best money that I have ever spent on a shotgun.
I have a question , I noticed that the hinge pin on the left side of the receiver looks like it is actually a big screw or bolt that might be easily changed ??


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 Post subject: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:57 pm 
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Don't apologise for bumping it, or I may never have found it :D
I also have just found a CZ Side-lock SxS 12 bore, although this one is not a shining example, if it was I could not afford it.
It seems pretty solid, well made and good wood to metal fit, and from there it gets worse.
The chequering is well worn but the wood work is free from any cracks or splits and no oil soaked in, but it is very plain, so needs refinishing, and has had the rear sling stud removed and the hole filled with filler :(
The action is off the face very slightly, no play can be detected with the fore end in place, but once off it is a little loose.
I am assuming this is not a great problem as the hinge pin is easily removable.
I may just have to make an offer on it this weekend, at the worst it will shoot ok as it is, but may make a nice project to play with, after all it is time I had a go at re-bluing a set of barrels, and they do need it.
It has the same choke markings as those above, but it has had the chokes opened up to 1/4 & 1/4, which is actually not a problem for me.

Neil. :)


Last edited by Hornet 6 on Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Saw quite a few Brno's at my local Cabelas.

They bought a ton of guns from an importer that got them and a variety of many makes from Sweeden.

I seems Sweeden was taxing owners for every gun they owned, so people were selling them. Picked up four guns myself. Some are real junkers, but a few gems.

There was one Brno that I bet maybe haden't been fired for I think about $400.

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 Post subject: Re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:49 am 
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:D Both of my sons and I purchased one of the shotguns at cabela's. You are absolutely right there are some junkers there but there also some real gems. The one we were fortunate enough to find are of the gem variety. We have shot our guns and were very pleased with them. The choke constrictions are marked on the underside of the barrel, and do not seem to exactly correspond to american choke sizes but they are pretty close. The chokes on these gun seem to be a little more open the the guns we are used to here. The BRNO's have great fit and finish and are really well made sxs's


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 Post subject: Re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:15 pm 
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AHHH the Bruno. One of the great "sleepers" Bull for stout! The one I have is an old Police version. 12 bore OU, compensators and double triggers. The police version has a cute wrinkle. Both barrels can be fired from the rear trigger. Its clubbly and heavy and ugly. It is also just murder on ducks!
PS not to be confused with any current offerings from CZ. I have a "bob white in .410. Just ok


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 Post subject: Re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:35 pm 
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heelerman wrote:
AHHH the Bruno. One of the great "sleepers"

Well not sure about the others mentioned, but mine is not a "Brno" it is a "CZ".
There are only one set of makers marks, and they say CZ.
Every Brno version I have seen, and they are far more plentiful, has Brno stamped on the top face of one of the barrels, the left one I believe.

Neil. :)


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 Post subject: Re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:48 pm 
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How old is it? any idea? the CZ of currnet production is CZ in name only.


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 Post subject: Re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:00 pm 
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heelerman wrote:
How old is it? any idea? the CZ of currnet production is CZ in name only.


Mine, 1965 is the year of manufacture and proof.

Neil. :)
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 Post subject: Re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:42 pm 
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wow lovley. 1965.
my guess would be that is an honest to god CZ. What a find. if it goes where you point it, I would call that a keeper.


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 Post subject: Re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:11 pm 
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heelerman wrote:
wow lovley. 1965.
my guess would be that is an honest to god CZ. What a find. if it goes where you point it, I would call that a keeper.


Thanks, I like it, old and battered, but as usable today as it was when it was made.
It shoots just where I point it, more so than any other SxS I have ever owned, and yes, it is a keeper.
I even like the worn appearance, it just looks it's age, and as it should.
Of course that means I may need to find another winter project gun :lol:

Neil. :)


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 Post subject: Re: BRNO / CZ shotguns ??
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:51 pm 
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Ah hell , take an iron and seam ou the dings an rub some tung oil into it. It will still have all of its old charm. It is a sidelock though so stay on the hunt for a parts gun, just a thought.


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