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 Post subject: Tru-Oil refinish completed - with photos/how to REVISED
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:29 pm 
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I know this is an old post, but I have revised some of the refinishing steps below. I have done a few more stocks since this one, so I revised the write-up. You can see it a few posts down. It's the long one! :D By the way, this stock still looks great in 2013!

I finished my Super X Model 1 Skeet stock and forend. I think it came out pretty good using Tru-Oil and a lot of patience. It takes time to get a stock granite smooth! Tonight I assembled it and took these photos. The SX1 is in really good condition overall. When I bought it the gold scrolling was already there and I liked it but it was looking worn, so I got a new inlay kit from Brownell's, cleaned out the old and in with the new! If you like this look and would like to try it but think it's too hard or might look sloppy, it's really VERY easy and looks great even up really close.

The case was something I found on eBay with the right dimensions. Looked good and it is powder coated aluminum. Once I got it, I was more than pleased with it's construction. I had to get new foam for the lower section since it already had cutouts for an O/U. It's three inches thick in the lower section, so I used a two inch piece with one inch on top. I took the one inch piece and cut it out to exactly fit the SX1 and barrel, then added a small extra storage area for this and that. I then got the material from Wally World and covered the interior using a 3M adhesive.

I think both the SX1 and the case came out great and will be proud to show it off at the range! Let me know what you think.

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Last edited by phil0411 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:10 pm 
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Dang, that looks NICE. Gun an case, good job!!!!!!

Good looking wood in that stock.

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:14 pm 
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Please post what steps you took to refinish the wood. I am about to re-do a Perazzi and that looks exactly how I want mine to look when I am done. Thanks! Also, looks awesome!!


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:36 pm 
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Really nice looking wood ! What will oil and solvents do to the gold work? I tried that on my set of SX barrels to see the choke markings better... didn't last past the first cleaning...Jack

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:59 pm 
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Excellent job of refinishing!!! You have a right to be proud of your project-one of the nicest Super X 1's I've ever seen. It's a shame Winchester ever quite making them like the X-1. In my honest opinion they were the finest auto ever produced by Winchester and probably the only auto that could keep company with the A-5's. It's always amazed me that they never caught on. Once again-fine job on the X-1!!!


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:56 am 
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Thanks for all of the great feedback! I really appreciate it. I guess It must look pretty good. :wink:

SXer, time will tell on the gold inlay. I do know it is 100% soluble with lacquer thinner, meaning it will come right off. I use break free with CLP on my guns and it doesn't seem to affect the gold at all. I know harsher cleaners will.

Truthseeker, the way to do this is with patience, patience, patience. All of this has been posted before and is a tried and true method. First step is to get all of the old finish off. This is done with the wood off of the gun and all hardware removed like the pad, grip cap, etc. I stripped mine with a common spray on stripper I got at Home Depot. Follow the directions and make sure you get all of the finish off and I mean all of it. Use a toothbrush in the checkering and keep working with the stripper until you are sure it's all gone. You may need to use the stripper three times or more depending on how tough your original finish is. Be sure to wear thick rubber gloves, that stuff will burn your skin in a hurry.

Once all of the finish is off, it's time to steam out any dents. There have been lots of posts about this but to sum it up, use a hot iron and a damp cloth. Set the cloth on the dent and press lightly with the iron. Repeated applications will raise almost anything if the wood hasn't been gouged.

Now you are going to de-whisker the wood. There are a couple of ways to do this, just do a search for dewhisker here and you'll find them but here's how I did mine. You should already be able to feel somewhat of a rough surface. You should now tape off the checkering to protect it. Time to sand and remember to always sand with the grain. Hand sand lightly with 220 grit until it feels really smooth. Be sure to stay clear of your checkering and be double sure not to sand much at all where the wood meets the metal of the gun. The last thing you want is to get carried away sanding. You can't put wood back on so removing material slowly is the way to go. It's best to use some sort of a block and not sand with just your hand and paper. There are lots of things to use for this like different sizes of rubber tubing for inner curves, pink rubber erasers for fine work, and of course regular sanding blocks for the bigger stuff. You can use your fingers with the paper, but be careful not to wear in any grooves. Only do this if you are very adept with sanding. The blocks are really the safe way to go. After you get it feeling pretty smooth, then wet it, dry it, and sand again. Repeat until it feels smooth even after the wetting and drying. Now I moved up to 320 grit paper and lightly sanded everything again.

Now take a good look at what you've done. You should have a perfectly clean and smooth stock and forend ready for finish. If it doesn't look right, then keep on it until it does, because preparation for the finish is the only way to get the finished product right!

Now it's the patience time because you are going to start applying the finish and you'll love the way it's looking so much you will want to hurry up and get it done. RESIST TEMPATION! :twisted:

The first coat is a soaking sealing coat before sanding. You will remove the tape from the checkering for this step. I use Tru-Oil diluted 50% with mineral spirits. Coat the inside inletted area butt stock end too. After the initial sealing coat, let it dry at least a day,then again carefully tape off all of your checkering using 3M blue masking tape. This time really take your time getting it taped off properly, trimming carefully. This tape is going to be on here awhile, so get it right. You can leave this tape on until close to the very end of this project. I will let you know when to take it off.

All of the sanding will be wet-sanding. For these pore filling steps I use pure Tru-Oil. (If you choose not to fill the pores with this "mudding" step or would like a slightly deeper looking finish, see the green paragraph toward the bottom this write-up then move to the top coat section.) I'd start with 220 grit Wet/Dry sand paper (the black type). Always use a hard backing to the paper or we'll end up with waves in the stock based on the differing hardness of the stock. Any stock with figure is more vulnerable to these waves than straight grain.

To wet sand, put a thin coat on the stock and wet the paper. Work on about 6 sq in at a time. You'll see a mud build up during the sanding. Wipe this mud across the pores during these early steps. Wipe off the mud completely though, as it will dry to be a bit harder than the wood. Again, protect the checkering with blue masking tape, and keep the finish out of the checkering. Use acetone and a toothbrush to remove any finish that dries in the checkering ASAP.

Do the whole stock with a wet sanding with 220. Let each coat dry completely, usually 2 days.

Decision Time - is it time to move up a grade in grit to 320? I don't know. The only way to tell is to move to 320, do a wet sanding, let it dry and see if there's any deep scratches that show up as coarser than the 320 scratches.

Going back is part of the game, and for me, I guess that half the time I move up a grade, I end up going back for more of the previous grade. Here's my estimate for go-rounds of wet sanding by grade:

Grit -Go rounds -Mixture
220 -1 -Pure T-O
320 -3 -Pure T-O
400 -2 -75% T-O and 25% mineral spirits
600 -2 -60% T-O and 40% mineral spirits

Top Coats

Note: If you didn't do the "mudding" step, then the first 20 or more coats should be done with straight Tru-Oil. Be sure to wipe off and blow any dust off before starting to top coat. Keep applying coats every six hours or so until the pores begin to disappear, sand lightly every four to six coats (and at least a day of dry time after the last one), repeat until you get the smooth look of granite with no pores showing shiny after lightly sanding.

The stock is ready for the true top coats when there is no, none, absolutely no pits showing at the pores and no apparent sanding scratches visible. For topcoats I keep the mixture about 60% T-O and 40% mineral spirits. The mineral spirits gives you a little bit more time smooth it all out before it gets tacky. If it's to thin, use a little more Tru-Oil, if is tacking up to quickly, add a little more mineral spirits.

Remember, so far you have not put any finish at all in the checkering and if you got some in there, you need to clean it out. You will do the checkering right at the end of your finishing. To apply the Tru-Oil top coats I used the blue "shop" paper towels. You fold them up and use a corner with the tips of two fingers. Apply the top coats evenly with light pressure. You do not want to have runs. if you are getting runs or sags, you're putting it on too thick. Just remember, a little oil will go a long way. Just keep enough on the PT to keep it going on smooth and keep wiping to even it out. Then let it dry completely, at least three or four hours before applying another coat, and at least one day before sanding again. Now is where I moved to really fine paper. This fine grit wet/dry paper is available in body shop suppliers. Also, some auto parts houses have them. I started with 1500 grit. After at least 24 hours since your last coat, lightly wet sand with water until you get it perfectly smooth again. This gets out any little dust nibs or lines left by the paper towels. Let it dry or blow it off with air, then wipe down with mineral spirits and wipe dry with a new blue PT. If you have compressed air, blow it off lightly, then apply another coat of Tru-Oil just like the last time. Leave another day and repeat this process. The key to the final steps is to keep the surface smooth by sanding every third or fourth coat without taking all of the Tru-Oil off that you just applied. Sand LIGHTLY! Again, I sanded about every 4 to 6 coats.

When it's almost perfect, move up to 2000 paper. This will give you a truly perfect finish base. You will know it's ready when you aren't seeing ANY pores. You will end up applying finish for three or four coats, then sanding lightly, then applying until you think its dang near perfect. Now is the time to do the checkering so remove all of your masking tape. I used a toothbrush to rub my 50/50 mix into the checkering, then I used compressed air to blow out the excess. You only want to seal the checkering, not fill it. Also keep in mind that now your checkering will be exposed, so be very careful when sanding between coats. Even 1500 grit will take the tips off of your diamonds in a hurry, so stay away from it. Now you will thin your Tru-Oil a little with mineral spirits every application, about 50% would be about right. I just kept sanding and re-applying until the topcoat came out "just right". You'll know when that will be. Just don't fall into the trap that it will be perfect, it won't. You will always find something else you want to sand a little, but resist or you will be applying for a year! When it looks right to you, let it dry for a least a week before really handling it and shooting. Keep your finger prints off during this week. RESIST KISSING IT! :D

My way of doing this will give you a very glossy finish as you can see by my pictures. If you want to dull it down by sanding or using steel wool, that's up to you.

Be proud of what you have done. Most people will not have the patience to go through this to really get it right!

Using Tru-Oil is faster that a Teak, Tung or Linseed finish because it drys much quicker. I am doing one of those to another SX stock and I am WEEKS away from posting it!

Since I originally posted this, I have done four more that turned out as good if not better than this one but to warn you, this can become an obsession to get just right, The last one I did has over 100 coats on it. No it not real thick, because I am sanding every five or so to remove imperfections, grain and waves.

I will also add this, once you have de-whiskered the wood, you really have a choice. You do not have to do the wet sanding to fill the pores with the "mud", but if you choose not to do that, it will take a LOT more coats of the Tru-Oil to really build up the finish and get it perfectly smooth with no pores showing. Not "mudding" will actually increase the depth of the finish as well, but not by much. It will also increase the chance of the finish shrinking into the pores over time, say a couple of years. Tru-Oil continues to dry and shrink for a long time when applied to a perfectly smooth surface but in a couple of years, you can just add right to the top of it by going back to the final sanding and finishing steps. It will look brand new again! If you do choose to add on or touch up in the future, be dang sure there is no oil or wax on the stock. Scrub it well with mineral spirits before you start.

You too can do this, it just takes time and patience. If you get in a hurry, it will look like, well, like you got in a hurry. This Super X is now two years since finished, and it still looks great with the same level finish and high gloss.

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Last edited by phil0411 on Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:44 am 
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Great write-up! I will post pics when I finish mine. Thanks a lot!!


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos/ho
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:29 pm 
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phil0411, Beautiful grain in the wood. Beautiful job to show it. Thanks for the article. It is saved. deckart


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos/ho
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:18 am 
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Phil,

That's simply gorgeous. Great work and excellent write-up. Your info and pics went into the Word doc that I've been compiling for a few weeks now... lol! :D


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos/ho
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:53 am 
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Phil,
Very nice job, it looks great. I have a Super X-1 that I am restocking and I am creating a pattern stock out of an old skeet stock. What kind of foam did you use in the case? I have a case with no foam and need a suggestion.

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 Post subject: Re: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:52 pm 
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Customstox wrote:
Phil,
Very nice job, it looks great. I have a Super X-1 that I am restocking and I am creating a pattern stock out of an old skeet stock. What kind of foam did you use in the case? I have a case with no foam and need a suggestion.


Thanks! I used high density upholstery foam. I just went to the local upholstery guy, he gave me way too much for like $6. The bottom layer is 2" with a separate 1" piece that I cut out to the pattern of the SX and barrel, then glued it to the 2" with 3M upholstery spray adhesive, then covered it using the same spray glue and then material I got at Wally World. I think it's called fleece, like the jackets are made from. The material was less than $5.

Good luck on your project, and thanks again!

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos/ho
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:52 pm 
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Forgot to ask, any brand of paper towels or like Scott or ???
I would be afraid of lint--but even using TruOil I can not see one speck of anything in the stock. thanks deckart


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 Post subject: Re: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:14 am 
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deckart wrote:
Forgot to ask, any brand of paper towels or like Scott or ???
I would be afraid of lint--but even using TruOil I can not see one speck of anything in the stock. thanks deckart

I am not sure of the brand, but they are the standard blue shop towels like you can find in rolls or in "rags in a box" at Home Depot.

I must add that pictures can be deceiving. Although my stock looks amazing, it is not perfect. What you see is the finish in a picture and it does look awesome, even if you held it in your hands and looked at it close. I think you are probably a perfectionist just like I am so to get it really perfect, it will need a pumice rub and the rottonstone. Then it will be actually as good up close as it looks in the pictures.

As far as lint, hairs or dust, you're right, there isn't any at all. That's one of the reasons it takes a long time on the actual finish coat to get it right. Believe me, I got my share of lint hairs and dust, but not many and it wasn't from my paper towel application. I was careful to apply when I was sure dust was down. The actual coat you see here was applied in my shop that has two doors to the outside, both were open but it was night time, there was no wind, and had rained plus it was about 75 degrees, so conditions were perfect. I live in Florida, so the winter is the perfect time to do finish work like this.

The best explanation I can give is you will learn through many coats the optimum way to get the Tru-Oil on very smooth. To be honest, there were three times I thought I looked really good, but decided it needed one more coat, then I ended up sanding again because of specks of dust or a very fine hair caught in my final coat. My best suggestion for the very final coat is be sure your TO is thinned about 50% and you glide it on with light pressure. Thinned this way it will "flow out" to look perfect and if you see a fine hair or something during application, you can go right back over it and the paper towel will catch it and you wipe it right off the end. Once you feel it looks really good but you think maybe one more coat wouldn't hurt, don't do it, leave it alone to dry for at least a week. After all, you can go back and do more later if you really feel the need.

It really is trial and error. I did a lot of reading how others do it and I have done a few different stocks, but this one really does look the best.

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos/ho
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:37 pm 
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Phil, I was wondering about the part about filling up the pores. When there is a paste on the stock, you wrote to rub it in, then wipe it off. do you want to rub the mixture into the pores in the grain or not??? Just want to know. Thanks deckart

PS The stock is great and I know nothing is perfect. I am surprise at the gloss with just hand rubbing. It looks like a spray job.


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos/ho
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:04 pm 
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Phil,
Thanks for the information. When I do a new stock, I sometimes put on 30 hand rubbed coats near the end. I use a different finish than true oil, it is a polymer modified tung oil. I will rub the finish down with rottenstone and oil to get a matte finish in most cases. You do need a built up finish to ensure that it is waterproof. And I use just normal kitchen paper towels when I wet sand.

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Last edited by Customstox on Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photo
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:58 pm 
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deckart wrote:
Phil, I was wondering about the part about filling up the pores. When there is a paste on the stock, you wrote to rub it in, then wipe it off. do you want to rub the mixture into the pores in the grain or not??? Just want to know. Thanks deckart

PS The stock is great and I know nothing is perfect. I am surprise at the gloss with just hand rubbing. It looks like a spray job.

Yes, you do want to fill the pores, that's what this step is for, but you don't want it to build up on the stock. I wiped across the grain. This leave the "mud" you made in the pores. Just wipe across lightly to leave some behind. The next time you sand and fill again, this will sand off the mud that wasn't left in the pores. Once you sand, fill, sand, fill, etc. enough times you won't be filling anymore. You'll know its right when it looks like a smooth stone with no visible pores. Once it looks like that, you are ready to start your top coats. Be sure to let it get really dry, like a week dry after you think the pores are filled. This will be sure the Tru-Oil won't shrink down and leave pores visible after your top coats are on. After the week, sand lightly one more time, then start top coating. The beauty of Tru-Oil is you can keep going back and trying again until you get the results you want.

Customstox, I know what you mean by the 30 coats. I am doing another SX1 stock and forend right now with Teak oil. I probably have 15 coats on it now and it still isn't even starting to build at all yet. The stock just keeps sucking it in. I am going to finish this one in Teak, but the next time I think I'll try the Tung oil. i have another stock for a Winchester model 25 that needs attention, so I'll try it on that one.

I really like the Tru-oil simply because it does build up fairly quickly, and it looks really good if applied right. I am still learning the different finishes and what is really the best all around. If I followed your lead like I probably should have from the get go, I would have used what you have found to be tried and true and went with pure Tung. Any suggestions would be welcome on finishes, applications and maintenance. I know most of this has been posted before, but I think a good write up from a master in refinishing that included pictures and step by step would be a welcome addition to this forum. This is the type of project a lot of guys would love to take on, but end up with mixed results because of trial and error. Maybe someone could even convince a moderator to make it a sticky!

Who knows, even though I'm no master, maybe I'll take the time to do it myself on the next project stock I take on.

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos/ho
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:45 pm 
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Customstox, I would love to hear more too. Are there any online sites that are trustworthy??? Thanks. deckart


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos/ho
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:04 am 
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When I fill pores buy using a mud coat, I do it in one or at most two applications but I do it a bit differently. I use 320 grit and either a quarter sheet rubber sanding block and I use small blocks made of walnut that are 3/4" wide by 3/8" thick and 2" long for a sanding block. I work up a good mud coat and wipe it into the pores of the wood and let it dry for a week. Then I wet sand the it back just to the wood and the pores are generally filled then. You have to inspect the surface because you can end up leaving some of the mud coat on the surface and it will give a very hazy shadowy blotch in an area. Those all have to be taken back the surface. Then I wet sand again with 320 and wipe it with a paper towel. Then I do 2 applications of 400 grit then 2 of 600 and then maybe two at 800. I rarely go beyond that but I do have a supply of 1000 1200 and 1500 but they get pretty lonely in my sandpaper cabinet.

I use a product called Daly's BennMatte. Produced by Daly's paints in Seattle. You can find it on line. I also like Daly's Sea Fin Teak oil. It gives a gloss finish and the Bennmatte will with numerous coats and I use rottentone on it to make it a matte finish.

deckart, I am not sure what you mean about online sites that are trustworthy.

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos/ho
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:43 pm 
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Customstox, I meant online sites that have information on refinishing that are trusted. Techniques that are the right way to do things. Thanks deckart


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Super X 1 refinish completed - with photos/ho
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:04 pm 
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Hope I don't make anybody mad....bump back to the top, I need it for easy reference, and really nice job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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