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 Post subject: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:04 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:08 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Charleston, SC
Trying to learn what is the difference in the Urika and Urika 2 Baretta 391. Is one better than the other?

Is the Urila 2 enough to make or break a deal?

Also, what is the Optium barrel / choke? Is it work seaking out?




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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:28 am 
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There are some minor cosmetic differences between the Urika and Urika 2. The only mechanical difference is in the design of the gas piston. Beretta claims that the new design reduces cleaning requirements, but most experienced Beretta users doubt that there is much, if any, real difference. The new piston is fully interchangeable with the old design.

"Optima" is Beretta's trade name for barrels that have a slightly larger bore diameter than their older barrels, which are now referred to as MobilChoke barrels. Optima barrels cannot use the MobilChoke choke tubes which were used by Berettas for many years, and are still used in a few models. Optima barrels use either Optima choke tubes (mostly in target guns, and a few field models) or Optima Plus tubes (mostly in field guns).

The Optima bore diameter caters to the current trend among clay target shooters for larger bores. The theory is that larger bores provide "better" patterns (however you may choose to define that), but there is little evidence that they actually make a significant difference, at least with the relatively small shot sizes used by target shooters. Optima barrels are slightly heavier than MobilChoke barrels (in semiautomatics, that is: in O/U's, MC barrels are heavier than Op barrels).

The Urika 2 and all Urikas made in the last few years have Optima barrels.

If you are trying to decide whether to buy a Urika or a Urika 2, my suggestion is pick the one that looks and feels best to you, because you will never find any difference in performance.

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"Beretta 391 Disassembly" - What the owner's manual doesn't tell you. See: viewtopic.php?t=123733
My pen name is Irish, pronounced SHAY-mus oh-KOSH-eh-deh. E-Mail jpcassada@gmail.com


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:04 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:03 pm
Posts: 4379
Location: orygun
drmajor
For more information on Berettas in general, go to the Beretta
International sight instead of the Beretta USA sight. They give
alot more detail there.

MWAG


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:52 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 2058
Location: MI
I prefer the feel of the mobil choked guns to the 2's. Of course it's easy to add weight all over a 391, so it isn't a big deal, but I wouldn't pay a nickle more for a 2 and would be more than happy to pay less for the mobil choked guns since they have been "replaced".
Dave


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:47 pm 
Shooting Instructor
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Dave: That is interesting that you prefer the mobil choked guns to the slight overbored Optima Bore.

I was fortunate to have my 390 and a 391 Urika and a 391 Urika Optima bore to compare side by side. The 390 had been fitted to me and The 391 Urika Optima bore was close but needed more cast off. The 391 Urika was just straight out of the box. all had 30" barrels

Right off I loved the feel of the of the Optima bored gun better than the 391 Urika. The latter felt whipy and out of balance to me.

I am very adaptable and can shoot almost any gun I get in my hands. I think that comes from being allowed to use a lot of different shotguns as a kid.

I kept the 391 Urika Optima bore and I use it almost exclusively for targets.

Warm regards from Kansas where the spring wild turkey season starts tomorrow.

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"A peculiar virtue in wildlife ethics is that the hunter ordinarily has no gallery to applaud or disapprove of his conduct. Whatever his acts, they are dictated by his own conscience, rather than by a mob of onlookers." Aldo Leopold


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:58 am
Posts: 360
Location: Cornwall, Vermont
:D
I talked with a Beretta parts guy today. The fellow I spoke with said the 3901 is the 1st revision of the original 390. It is also made in the USA.

The 3901 usually costs less and the gas system is much easier to work on and clean. The 391's have a little slimmer forearm which I like, I have had a couple of 391's.

After many years of using both models I just bought another 12 gauge 3901 (390). I wanted a 12 gauge reduced length stock, that's the only model that has one in 12 gauge.

I still have a 391 20 gauge that's a keeper.

Ernie


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:19 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:37 am
Posts: 2001
Location: Virginia
A few of what, I hope, are clarifications.
1. Unless one pays extra for the Gold versions, the Urika 2's come with Xtra Grain wood-don't ask!
2. All 20ga. guns continue to use the Mobilchoke system.
3. It is not just the Urika 2's that have the Optima barrels. Late model Urika's do as well. Older 12 gauge 391 Urikas have the Mobilchoke system
4. While the 3901 is a new twist on the original 390, it unfortunately, comes only in field versions with the exception of a reduced length model. If it came in target versions, it would be too tempting an alternative to the much higher priced Urika 391's.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 am 
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astomb wrote:
Dave: That is interesting that you prefer the mobil choked guns to the slight overbored Optima Bore.


I'm with Dave on that. My first 391 was a Urika 28" Optima, and after borrowing several other barrels to try them out, I went to considerable trouble to replace my barrel with a 30" MC. The 30" MC barrel is lighter than the 28" Op, and I prefer the feel of it.

_________________
"Beretta 391 Disassembly" - What the owner's manual doesn't tell you. See: viewtopic.php?t=123733
My pen name is Irish, pronounced SHAY-mus oh-KOSH-eh-deh. E-Mail jpcassada@gmail.com


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:42 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Location: Manhattan Kansas
Seamus and Dave:

I just shows that there is a good bit of individual variation on what "feels right" when you pick up a shotgun. That is why when looking for a shotgun we need to pick them up and shoot them if we can.

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Spencer

"A peculiar virtue in wildlife ethics is that the hunter ordinarily has no gallery to applaud or disapprove of his conduct. Whatever his acts, they are dictated by his own conscience, rather than by a mob of onlookers." Aldo Leopold


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:31 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:08 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Charleston, SC
So far, the 28 & 30" barrel seems to feel best...but I'm 6'4 and have 37" arms..

Dicks Sporting Goods has a Urika (2?) with the 30" and the choke tubes that have the external grip. $1099.

Still trying to find a used one..


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:19 pm 
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A good friend let me borrow all 3 of his 391's - each had to have a different set of chokes, none were interchangeable....391, 391 urika, 391 urika 2....he also has 390's and 303's....he has told me that the 391 urikas are the easiest to clean, MUCH better than the 390's.....a gun writer I know has seconded that opinion. Since I am considering one of these, I am leaning toward the urika 2 gold sporting.....


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:19 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:58 am
Posts: 360
Location: Cornwall, Vermont
Hi oneounceload,

I probably won't be the only Beretta auto user you'll hear from about cleaning the 390 vs the 391.

There are more loose parts when you clean a 390 gas system but that is their strength.THEY ARE LOOSE. So you can clean them easily every time you take the forearm and barrel off the gun.
The 391 gas system parts are hard to disassemble and much harder to clean. Mostly because they are so bothersome to take apart that they don't get cleaned often and when you do take them apart there is much soaking and scrubbing to do plus it is not obvious how the parts go back together.

If you friends are just pulling the barrel off and clening it then it would appear the 391 is easier but it is not.

There is a good side to the 391, it has a little slimmer firearm because of the smaller gas system, that's nice, and you don't have to take the gas system apart but maybe once per year.

I have both guns also. Better ask your friends if they have ever cleaned the gas system by taking it apart on a 391. It sounds like they haven't judging by what they told you.

I think they are both great guns so you will be OK no matter what you pick. If you are concerned about ease of cleaning the 390 is a better choice plus they cost less for the same quality gun.

Ernie


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:24 pm 
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one of them has a 303, which he likes the best, catalogued over 100,000 through it to the point there is metal erosion on the lower receiver ejection port...says it is a bugger to clean, the 390 is second while the 391 is easier...again, I have NO personal knowledge - I am relying on them, experienced folks here, etc.....


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:48 pm 
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Location: Cornwall, Vermont
Hi oneounceload,

You might ask your friend if he has ever taken the gas system that is attached to the 391 barrel apart. It has two little circular lock nuts with notches cut in them , a big strong spring, a cover, a collar and a gas directing part inside of the gas cylinder itself. In addition it has the gas piston that is about the same as the other Beretta.

He probably has never taken it all apart to give it a complete cleaning. The little wrenches from Beretta are hard to work with also.

If he had done all of this he'd probably tell you something different.

I had a Browning B80 once that I think is the same as the 303, nice gun and easy to clean.

I suspect a 391 would work for years without a complete cleaning. I do mine before duck season and shoot it for another year before I take the gas system apart again and it is still working fine.

As I said they are both good guns so this is just something to discuss on the forum.

Ernie


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:56 pm 
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thanks, and discussion is what I am looking for - I won't mention my gun writer friend's name - suffice to say writing for some major clays mags under his belt - I trust his input....but what he feels is difficult, others might not and vice-versa - why I'm asking....eventually, I will make up my own mind, but everyones' input WILL make the elimination process easier.....
again, thanks for your input - I appreciate it!


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:58 am
Posts: 360
Location: Cornwall, Vermont
Hi oneounceload,

I like the way you approach this subject. Collect information and make up your own mind. Way to go IMO.

You'll do just fine in the end with that way of approaching the decision..

A friend who is a major dealer in Vermont says the 390 connecting rod does not break like the 391 does. I have never had either one break but I am a hunter/skeet shooter vs a sporting clays guy. I don't put the number of rounds through the guns the sporting guys do??? He shoots sporting.

In the end I just want a gun I can have fun with in the summer and kill ducks and geese with in the fall.

I truly love the 391 but just bought a 3901 because I can get it in a 12 gauge with a shorter stock that can be a 14" LOP, with spacers. I have a bad shoulder and a short stock with a tight curved pistol grip works better for me??

Find what fits you and go with it.

Ernie


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 Post subject: Re: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:42 am 
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Peacore wrote:
A friend who is a major dealer in Vermont says the 390 connecting rod does not break like the 391 does.


The two models use exactly the same connecting rod.

I suppose there could be some other difference between the models that would make the connecting rod less likely to break when it is in a 390 than when it is in a 391, but I doubt it. The difference between the models is in the gas system (piston/cylinder/valve) which is at the other end of the gun from the connecting rod.

_________________
"Beretta 391 Disassembly" - What the owner's manual doesn't tell you. See: viewtopic.php?t=123733
My pen name is Irish, pronounced SHAY-mus oh-KOSH-eh-deh. E-Mail jpcassada@gmail.com


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:58 am
Posts: 360
Location: Cornwall, Vermont
Hi Seamus,

Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't think to check the connecting rods in my guns.

Ernie


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 Post subject: Re: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:24 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:37 am
Posts: 2001
Location: Virginia
Seamus O'Caiside wrote:
Peacore wrote:
A friend who is a major dealer in Vermont says the 390 connecting rod does not break like the 391 does.


The two models use exactly the same connecting rod.

I suppose there could be some other difference between the models that would make the connecting rod less likely to break when it is in a 390 than when it is in a 391, but I doubt it. The difference between the models is in the gas system (piston/cylinder/valve) which is at the other end of the gun from the connecting rod.


It's amazing how much misinformation is available out there and much of it from people who should know better, such as gun dealers.


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 Post subject: re: Urika vs Urika 2?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:58 pm 
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Seamus:
I seem to remember that the early 390s had connecting rod problems and it was the material that the rod was made of. I remember buying an aftermarket rod a year after I bought the 390 and I have not seen any need to replace it since that time.

Beretta corrected the problem, but people remember the problem and repeat it forever.



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"A peculiar virtue in wildlife ethics is that the hunter ordinarily has no gallery to applaud or disapprove of his conduct. Whatever his acts, they are dictated by his own conscience, rather than by a mob of onlookers." Aldo Leopold


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