CalendarCalendar   Photos  * FAQ
It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:25 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:48 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:37 am
Posts: 2
Location: Arizona
I'm retired and doing some traveling in my M/H. I want the security of a good weapon. I've got many handguns to choose from, but think....on the road in a Motor Home, I want something that I don't have to be so precise with, and will make a BIG impression on anyone trying to harm the wife or myself. So, my question: What is the legal specifications of an ILLEGAL sawed off? What do I have to do to be legal? Also, if any of you have gone the same way, what gun did you start with and why? Or maybe, you'd just "suggest" one to start with, without making any further comment....haha Thanks to any who choose to take time to answer.... Arizona Nomad




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:53 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 4397
Location: Long Island, NY
The barrel needs to be at least 18.5 inches long to be legal.

Frank


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:59 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:27 am
Posts: 98
sounds like a bad idea to cut it down yourself. and while traveling you never know what state law you may walk into.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:17 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:37 am
Posts: 2
Location: Arizona
My feelings on this is, If I do it myself, I don't involve anyone else in the operation. I know how it is done and that it is done the way I want it. My motorhome is just that, a home, and unless I am forced to use the weapon, noone will know it even exists. If I am forced to use, I'll accept the judgement of 12 rather than the muscle of 6. But I do respect the views of everyone, and appreciate their comments.... Thank you....18.5 to be legal????


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:29 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:27 am
Posts: 98
stoegger makes a "coach gun" they run about 200$ and the barrels are right at legal length.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:31 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:00 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Az
Arizona Nomad wrote:
I'm retired and doing some traveling in my M/H. I want the security of a good weapon. I've got many handguns to choose from, but think....on the road in a Motor Home, I want something that I don't have to be so precise with, and will make a BIG impression on anyone trying to harm the wife or myself. So, my question: What is the legal specifications of an ILLEGAL sawed off? What do I have to do to be legal? Also, if any of you have gone the same way, what gun did you start with and why? Or maybe, you'd just "suggest" one to start with, without making any further comment....haha Thanks to any who choose to take time to answer.... Arizona Nomad



minimum legal barrel length= 18"
minimum legal overall length of the shotgun= 26"

Anything shorter than that and you have created a SBS (Short barrel shotgun) and would need the appropriate NFA paperwork to remain legal to own that weapon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:31 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:07 pm
Posts: 7501
Location: Everywhere you want to be
Why don't you just buy a gun that already has a short barrel?

Also, there is just as much precision required at short range with a shotgun as with a handgun.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:38 am 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:51 pm
Posts: 1588
Location: Clifton, NJ
Hey Arizona - I had the same concern a while back because my wife and I travel alot in our motorhome and often boondock in remote areas. I got myself the Stoeger Coach Gun in 12 ga. It is legal length (18 inches) and I never had a problem. It is a reliable gun. While I have not had to use it yet for any emergency purposes, I also hunt upland with it and it is great. I imagine it would make the impression you are talking about.

_________________
Beretta SP II; Beretta Teknys Gold; Beretta Ultralight Deluxe; Franchi Diamond; Franchi I-12; Remington Automaster; Remington Wingmaster; DeHaan S2; CZ Bobwhite; Stoeger Coachgun Supreme; Fausti Style; Springfield Loaded 1911; Ruger RedHawk; Marlin 990


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:43 am 
ID & Value Expert
ID & Value Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:16 am
Posts: 10514
I carry a Browning BPS Upland Model that has a factory 22" barrel. I can use it for a hunting back up, too.

_________________
CAUTION: Things may appear closer in the rear view mirror!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:46 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:55 pm
Posts: 91
Location: NJ
Nomad - not that I wouldn't love to have you come visit us here in NJ, but having a loaded weapon in an automobile will get you a free night at the NJ State Hotel and they may send you on your way without your gun.

I'd bet that a mobile home, even if it's parked, would be considered an automobile by a lot of law enforcement officers in our fine state.

It's also illegal to "drive around" with a gun in your car. If you are not going to/from hunting or the range, you are at peril for a major hassle, if not worse.

I don't know if anyone has been tried and convicted, but technically, you are breaking the law if you stop for a bite to eat and leave the gun in your car. NJ law says transporting a firearm is allowed with "only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances," meaning if a cop doesn't like the way you look, you're screwed.

Unfortunately, our state is a little worked up over guns. Luckily, bribery & government corruption is subject to much weaker control, or it would be no fun at all to live here 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:59 pm 
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:43 am
Posts: 4958
You might also want to ask this question in the Tactical Forum. You'll find many people very experienced in this subject. BTW, here's how you perform those minimum barrel and overall length measurements:

HOW TO MEASURE A SHOTGUN FOR LEGAL MINIMUM LENGTH

27 CFR 479.11

"For purposes of this definition, the length of the barrel having an integral chamber(s) on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of
the bolt, breech, or breech block when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked. The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore."

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422 ... 479.11.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:08 pm 
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:43 am
Posts: 4958
Oh, and state/federal firearm laws summarized here:

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:23 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 4397
Location: Long Island, NY
industrious95 wrote:
Nomad - not that I wouldn't love to have you come visit us here in NJ, but having a loaded weapon in an automobile will get you a free night at the NJ State Hotel and they may send you on your way without your gun.

I'd bet that a mobile home, even if it's parked, would be considered an automobile by a lot of law enforcement officers in our fine state.

It's also illegal to "drive around" with a gun in your car. If you are not going to/from hunting or the range, you are at peril for a major hassle, if not worse.

I don't know if anyone has been tried and convicted, but technically, you are breaking the law if you stop for a bite to eat and leave the gun in your car. NJ law says transporting a firearm is allowed with "only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances," meaning if a cop doesn't like the way you look, you're screwed.

Unfortunately, our state is a little worked up over guns. Luckily, bribery & government corruption is subject to much weaker control, or it would be no fun at all to live here 8)


You raise some excellent points. In fact, Miller vs the State of Illinois is the precedent. In that case Miller was caught travelint interstate with a sawed off shotgun. His defense was that he was entitled to have the weapon based on the Second Amendment. What the Supreme Court found was that a sawed off shotgun was not a typical military (militia) weapon, and therefore was not protected by the Second Amendment.

Frank


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:23 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:52 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Michigan
ATF says the shotgun must be at least 26" OAL, minimum barrel length of 18". On a semi-auto or pump, measure the barrel from the front of the ejection port. Break-down guns are measured from the breach.

Best,
Dennis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:29 pm 
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:43 am
Posts: 4958
pendennis wrote:
On a semi-auto or pump, measure the barrel from the front of the ejection port.


No, that's wrong. Using that information you might inadvertently make an unregistered SBS. I posted the correct information above, with a cite to the relevant statute.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:42 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 9:10 am
Posts: 939
Location: Texas
http://www.mossberg.com/products/defaul ... n=products

Barrel length 18 1/2" CYL. BORE
Guns over all length 28 3/4

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=97716822

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:04 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 17029
Location: Missouri
Police, prosecutors, judges, and juries will tend to be more sympathetic if you had an unaltered short barreled "coach gun" double than if you had a black, pistol griped, short barreled tactical pump.

Better to look like Matt Dillon than Rambo. :wink:

I don't agree with all this, but it's so. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:27 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:14 pm
Posts: 3896
Location: SoCal
Grizzlywinmag wrote:
pendennis wrote:
On a semi-auto or pump, measure the barrel from the front of the ejection port.


No, that's wrong. Using that information you might inadvertently make an unregistered SBS. I posted the correct information above, with a cite to the relevant statute.


Yup, that the way they do it!
With the gun "in battery":
:arrow: take a rod and drop it down the barrel till it touches the bolt face.
:arrow: make a mark on the rod at the muzzle.
:arrow: remove the rod, then measure from that mark to the end of the rod.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:39 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:31 pm
Posts: 1946
Location: DFW, Texas
Ditch the pistol grip idea and get a shotgun with a full stock.

_________________
Browning, Remington, Beretta shotguns

“The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” —Samuel Adams


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: What's legal in a sawed off/short barreled shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:59 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:44 am
Posts: 255
Location: Ishpeming, MI
In Michigan, the only way you can legally transport a long gun in a vehicle is if you have a valid hunting license or are traveling to or from a licensed shooting range. Keeping a shotgun (even unloaded and in a case) in your vehicle for protection while camping or just traveling around would be illegal (unless I've been mis-reading the laws).




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 10Straight, 1958jr, AdsBot [Google], B-Boy, Bing [Bot], Burnt Powder, Cantey, CCskeetr, Cerberus, cheecho1960, Cheffish, Curly-Nohair, DavidBDyer, Drew Hause, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, hawglips, heroonk, HoosiershooterinPA, Irish Red & White, jackvoorheis, jandat, jdtrio, Jfwhit, Josh R, jrmev, Ken W., Knave, la angler, lizardbreath, mibear, midway3113, minatophase3, morg7140, Nadoman, Nate_Evans, NCMikeR, Old Shooter, oldmansguns, papillonkirby, pathdoc, Plain, randyabb, ridenemwild, rlm5, Rypebryst, seh, Sidewayz, simsy9, slickshot223, spyderman2k4, stripersonfly, SuperXThree, swvamarksman*, targetcrusher1, TDKK, tdxm, three feathers, Tijeras_Slim, Trouptc, TRUTTA, venson, Vette Jockey, winmod21


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group     -  DMCA Notice