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 Post subject: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:37 am
Posts: 1296
Location: Bel Air, MD
Is it me who only thinks like this or are there others out there like me when it comes to recoil?I think it comes down to the size load you use that determines the amount of recoil.Sometimes my 20 ga. jolts me more than my 12ga.Please correct me if I am wrong on this.


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 Post subject: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:18 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 142
Location: North Carolina - Union County
Physics will win out every time. Recoil is ONLY a function of the mass of the ejecta (shot, powder, wad, etc. Everything that comes out), the velocity with which it is ejected, and the weight of the gun. A 1 oz load from a 7 lb 12 gauge will 'recoil' the exact same as an equivalent 1 oz load from a 7 lb 20 gauge, assuming the same powder charge and wad weight.

Perceived recoil is a whole nuther critter. Now you start talking about gun fit, the degree to which the gun's action (fixed breach or semiauto) lengthens the recoil impulse, and how much you paid for your recoil pad.

Wes


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 Post subject: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:31 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 6677
Location: E. Rochester NY
Pure, absolute recoil is a function of physics. There are formulae to determine it, and it can be scientifically measured in absolute terms.

It takes into account Newton's laws, the load mass (and other ejecta), the square of the velocity, the powder mass (weight), the weight of the firearm, the acceleration of gravity, etc., and the result is a force backwards in "foot-pounds" (or its metric equivalent, if that turns you on.)

And that's great. However, what we shooters are concerned with is "perceived recoil". That is a measure of what we feel and experience when we shoot. It's an intangible that is a function how a gun personally fits you and how it is balanced for you, how loud the report is, how heavy the gun is, etc. Your physical and mental health also play some roll in this, as well.

There is no black and white answer. A too light 20 gauge that doesn't fit will kick painfully compared to a heavy 3.5" 12 shooting MAX loads if the 12 fits better. The opposite will be true if the 20 fits better.

You have to try the gun first!

These things are known to help lower perceived (and actual) recoil:

Shoot to have fun!-

A better fitting gun-

Good hearing protection -

Lighter weight shot loads-

Heavier guns-

Lower velocity-

Good recoil pads-

Don't try to break records of physical endurance-

Those are the biggies, and are in no particular order. They all contribute to making shooting more fun!

BobK

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 Post subject: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:13 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:03 pm
Posts: 141
Yes, I am perceiving a sore shoulder from the lightweight 20 I shot yesterday. I ordered a shooting vest with padded shoulder and am looking into a recoil pad. But, no one is biting on my last post about which pads are better at absorbing recoil. :(


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 Post subject: Re: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:24 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Tipton, OK
crowhunter wrote:
Yes, I am perceiving a sore shoulder from the lightweight 20 I shot yesterday. I ordered a shooting vest with padded shoulder and am looking into a recoil pad. But, no one is biting on my last post about which pads are better at absorbing recoil. :(


I like the browning reactor pad myself.

Jim

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"Learn from others mistakes, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself"


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 Post subject: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:43 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 6677
Location: E. Rochester NY
You can argue about pads all you want. First, make sure the gun FITS you. When you get a pad, make sure it is installed so that it FITS you and your shooting style. A poorly installed pad can make a gun seem to kick WORSE!

BobK

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 Post subject: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:16 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:08 pm
Posts: 5
Location: southern Ontario
A gunsmith watched me shoulder my 12 gauge and then claimed I need an inch cut off the stock. He couldn't give me specifics as to why he felt the stock needed cutting. Can someone give me some general idea how to fit a gun?

I'm thinking about removing the hard stock cap and replacing it with a Limbsaver but if I use a pull over pad will work over the bare wood stock? Do I need to leave the hard cap on there as well?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Dan O.


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 Post subject: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:58 am
Posts: 360
Location: Cornwall, Vermont
:D

Hi salesrep,

Yers , some 20 gauge loads will kick you harder than a 12 gauge.

It depends on most of the things the other guys have listed. Gun weight, shot charge weight, velocity etc.

I shoot 7/8 oz. handloads in my 12 at about 1150FPS, nice soft load with very low recoil in an 8 pound gun. If I were to shoot 7/8 oz. at 1200 FPS in a 6 pound 20 gauge I'd feel more recoil.
I shoot 3/4 oz. handloads in my 20 and it is easy on the shoulder.

You are asking the right question. Investigate the subject some more and try to get the recoil calculation formula. Once you know how to do the math you can pretty much figure out what recoil will be with any gun you own. One of the Hodgdon Annual Manuals has it in it, I think it was the 2006 book.

Ernie


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 Post subject: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:51 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:03 pm
Posts: 141
I was thinking about the recoil from my new 20ga SKB. Then remembered the 20 ga single barrel Stoeger that I bought several years ago for my daughter. I do not remember it kicking that much. I pulled it out of the vault and to my suprise it had a RECOIL PAD. A NICE recoil pad. Very cushy. Now, why did they put a nice recoil pad on a $99 single barrel and not on my $1125 SKB. You would think that for $1125, they could afford a lousy $30 recoil pad. The gun is made in Japan. Maybe they are still pissed about WW2 and this is their way of getting back at us :)


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 Post subject: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:50 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 6677
Location: E. Rochester NY
The limbsaver is a favored recoil pad and works well!

BobK

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 Post subject: Re: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:33 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
Oggie wrote:
A gunsmith watched me shoulder my 12 gauge and then claimed I need an inch cut off the stock. He couldn't give me specifics as to why he felt the stock needed cutting. Can someone give me some general idea how to fit a gun?

I'm thinking about removing the hard stock cap and replacing it with a Limbsaver but if I use a pull over pad will work over the bare wood stock? Do I need to leave the hard cap on there as well?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Dan O.


For some reason "fit" is the most misunderstood thing about guns and shooting! You cannot just "look" and decide to cut off an inch. And not be able to explain!

There are many threads about fitting but the gist of it is that:

1. You need to have a proper and CONSISTENT mount. If you are different each time, you cannot get fitted.

2. It isn't just length of pull (LOP) but also drop at comb and heel; pitch; cast.

These all interact.

A poorly fitting gun will pound the hell out of you. If you have good form and a well-fitting gun it won't pound the hell out of you.

There are a lot of long threads on fitting on this forum and on others - well worth studying before you have some guy chop off part of your stock.

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Frank
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"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
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 Post subject: Re: re: 12ga. vs. 20ga. recoil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 9295
crowhunter wrote:
I was thinking about the recoil from my new 20ga SKB. Then remembered the 20 ga single barrel Stoeger that I bought several years ago for my daughter. I do not remember it kicking that much. I pulled it out of the vault and to my suprise it had a RECOIL PAD. A NICE recoil pad. Very cushy. Now, why did they put a nice recoil pad on a $99 single barrel and not on my $1125 SKB. You would think that for $1125, they could afford a lousy $30 recoil pad. The gun is made in Japan. Maybe they are still pissed about WW2 and this is their way of getting back at us :)


Stoeger KNEW they had to put one on to make it shoot....Ibelieve SKB puts recoil pads on their target guns, I do not believe they do it on their field guns.... both my field guns had to have pads put on for LOP adjustment anyway


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