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 Post subject: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:42 pm
Posts: 7
Location: UK
I'm thinking of buying a secondhand Kemen off a friend. It's an over and under with fixed chokes and 32 inch barrels, very plain but in nice condition. I've shot it a bit and the dynamics and general handling of the gun strike me as exceptional. Has anyone got any experience of Kemen for sporting in particular? If so, what do you think of them?

The asking price is pretty hefty so any input would be gratefully received!


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:33 pm 
Gunsmith
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:07 pm
Posts: 354
Location: kansas city
I have shot one but mostly worked them, i am building a barrel set for a customer so i have been through his quite alot.
They seem to be a better Perazzi design, fit and finish are perfect, the ejectors are good and throw the fired shells out very well.
The bore diameter is 742 and the outside dia. is 840, there nice light weight barrels.
The new set is 32 inch and the ond set is 30 inch, there pricey but seem to be worth it.
The wood is well figured and the checkering is good, it all depends on fair market value, i don't know what these are selling for and i don't think i could afford one but for the prices i have seen, it is a well built shotgun and won't wear you out shooting it.

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paul salchow,simmons gun repair.
http://www.simmonsguns.com
Hurco VM2, sold the piece of junk.


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
With an OD of .840 and an ID of .742 that give wall thickness of .049, or almost .050.

Isn't that a bit thick for barrel wall?

I think my Silverhawk is about .040 and that makes for a heavy barrel.

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Frank
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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:55 pm 
Gunsmith
Gunsmith

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:07 pm
Posts: 354
Location: kansas city
The 840 is foward of the chamber but the barrels are a stright taper.
Offhand i can't remember the min. o.d. on the taper. but they are thinner from the forend out.

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paul salchow,simmons gun repair.
http://www.simmonsguns.com
Hurco VM2, sold the piece of junk.


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 2020
Location: MI
Kemens deserved a better fate. They are a well made great handling gun. Mechanically they would match about anything. The only issue was a spate of stocks breaking at the wrist. While there were a lot of "Why buy a Perrazi clone when you can get the real thing" comments made, I'm not sure why the Kemen would take a back seat to the P guns. Perazzi copied the Boss action, didn't invent it, so they are both Boss clones. Sportsmans Finest is still importing a few. If you can get it at a fair price, you'll have a fine gun.
Dave


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:17 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 542
Location: Carrum Downs Australia
A very popular and desireable trap gun in Aus. I have just parted with a 30" KM4 as I want 32" bbls with a high rib. They are around the same price down here as a Perazzi MX2000 or MX8 depending on engraving etc. Just a plain receiver and you are lookink at around AUD12K. I sold my 1997 model for 7.5K. Everything Simmonsguns told you was spot on and personally I think they are better finished than the new Perazzi ( that will get a reaction)
I can not speak about a Sporter other than to say they are very highly regarded in the UK. I will offer one word of warning before you commit - check that the barrel weight suits you as there are many variations. The trap guns go from 1525 to 1600 or more.
Many parts are interchangeable with Perazzi but not the stock as the inletting is different.
Lovely gun and you will enjoy if you buy
Run Em
Barry

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Last edited by Hooligan on Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 542
Location: Carrum Downs Australia
A very popular and desireable trap gun in Aus. I have just parted with a 30" KM4 as I want 32" bbls with a high rib. They are around the same price down here as a Perazzi MX2000 or MX8 depending on engraving etc. Just a plain receiver and you are lookink at around AUD12K. I sold my 1997 model for 7.5K. Everything Simmonds told you was spot on and personally I think they are better finished than the new Perazzi ( that will get a reaction)
I can not speak about a Sporter other than to say they are very highly regarded in the UK. I will offer one word of warning before you commit - check that the barrel weight suits you as there are many variations. The trap guns go from 1525 to 1600 or more.
Many parts are interchangeable with Perazzi but not the stock as the inletting is different.
Lovely gun and you will enjoy if you buy
Run Em
Barry

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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:32 pm
Posts: 5275
Location: Houston, Texas
One of the things I like about the Kemen guns is the chrome lined barrels. Here in SE Texas the humidty is high and I dont like having to clean a barrel after each outing.

To me this is a plus vs. Perazzi


RTA48


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 5:03 pm
Posts: 190
Location: London, England
i have got rid of my Perazzi's (in favour of some more Browning B25's, which are on the way). However, I plan to get at least one Kemen over the next 6 months, as the barrels are a bit lighter and with faster handling than the P gun. The mark 2 Kemen seems a particular step forwards.
James


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:06 pm
Posts: 610
Anyone selling one? I have been in the market for a while....the trick is to find "a reasonably priced Kemen".....


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:26 pm
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I have a 32" 20ga with Brileys and upgraded stocks that I haven't gotten around to selling yet. It's a great comp gun for 20ga SC events and an awesome dove gun, but SxS's have stolen my heart.


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:58 am 
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 2020
Location: MI
Bangalore,
I have a friend with a 32" stepped rib gun, adjustable comb mild Monte Carlo stock, about 3/8's cast if I remember correctly. It's a good, clean gun, about 8.5 pounds and delightfully balanced. He was mumbling something about selling it the other day. If you would be interested, pm me. I'll talk to him later today and see if he has a price in mind.
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:26 pm
Posts: 544
Dave Holmes wrote:
.... Sportsmans Finest is still importing a few. If you can get it at a fair price, you'll have a fine gun.
Dave


Dave,
Is Bryan Bilinski not big on Kemens anymore??? I don't remember if he was an importer or just a dealer but the last time that I was up there he had a huge number and was taking them on the road.

IIRC they're the old Victor Sarasqueta company aren't they?

Only problem that I've observed is that rarely can one get one's money out of a used one like you can a P-gun. They also seem to have a hard time keeping "pros" signed on (i.e. John Woolley and George Digweed come to mind).

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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:37 pm
Posts: 424
Location: Portugal
Spain being the neighboring country makes them quite popular around here.
The are very good guns, I was very impressed with some "lighter" sporting guns made especially for driven shooting.
Diana Viaji in Madrid usually stock some very impressive Kemens, and they are fashionable with the driven shooting guys in Spain.

I asked the factory a quote for a 20 gauge some time ago, and they were more expensive than a Perazzi.

HM


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 2020
Location: MI
45,
I've heard a couple different stories on Fieldsport's status with Kemen. They still have a few in stock, but I don't know if they are importing any more.
The heads of Kemen were part of the conglomorate of builders who got together in the Eibar region and started the ill-fated venture that I can't remember the name of right now. Pretty tough to get a bunch of Basque builders under the same roof and not have some sparks fly. On the surface, the joint venture sounded like a good idea, it just didn't work. After that Kemen started doing business. The family has been around the industry for quite a few years before Kemen came to be and there could have been some associated with Sarasqueta, but I don't specifically recall it. The story I heard was that Perazzi allowed some patents to expire and Tony Kennedy, an asute member of the trade in England, knew it. He went to Kemen and said "Build this gun." So they did. I don't know if that is 100% accurate, but I was told it by someone who should have had good information.
Re: The pros. Nobody ever left Kemen because they didn't like the guns.
Dave

Dave
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:26 pm
Posts: 544
Dave Holmes wrote:
...part of the conglomorate of builders who got together in the Eibar region and started the ill-fated venture that I can't remember the name of right now....


"Diarm"--1983 or 1984 as I recall. Sarasqueta was sort of the mobilizing force behind it but AYA was the biggest component IIRC. Gasan Bader started American Arms about that time to be the US importer, but he had previously brought in Sarasqueta and some Sarahuerte (sp?) guns--some of which were truly pitiful pieces of crap.

As I recall from talking with Woolley his problem with the guns had to do with broken promises from someone here in the US. I guess Digweed just got "bought" back by Perazzi.

Do you agree that Kemen's suffer in the used market compared with P-guns??

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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:37 pm
Posts: 424
Location: Portugal
I've heard the same story mentioned by Dave Holmes regarding the lost patents by Perazzi.

Some time ago I contacted Kemen asking for a quote for a 28 gauge with 30" or 32" barrels.
I was told that there was no market for that gun in Europe, and they would only do it if they had a minimum order.
I contacted Fieldsports to see if they would be interested in being part in this project, which was getting 20 or so customers for a 28 gauge " dove special", but they weren't thrilled.

Anyway, I got my dedicated dove gun from other maker, but I still think that with the proven reliability of the Kemens in competitive shooting, great balance, plus the removable trigger group, it would make a great dove gun.

Maybe here in the forum I would have come up with the number of orders for the gun, and we could call it shootingworld speacial edition :wink:


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 5:03 pm
Posts: 190
Location: London, England
HM,
I spoke to the UK importer about a 28 bore, for Argentinian doves, exactly as you have done, on reading your post.

Also told that there was no demand for the product -sad, as I would love just such a gun, from Kemen.

James
ps. I have some pictures of that Purdey sporter, that I posted about a few weeks ago, if you want me to send them to you.


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:37 pm
Posts: 424
Location: Portugal
James,

It's their loss...

Yes I would like to see the photos, please email them or you can post them here if you like to star a thread.
email is: menezesh@netmadeira.com

I'll send you the details on the place in Spain I told you about, as soon as I get them.

Best

HM


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 Post subject: re: Kemen shotguns
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:18 pm
Posts: 337
Location: pgeroge@stny.rr.com
I shoot with a buddy who has one. He had a mishap with it where he had to have a set of barrels made. If I remember right he was initially given a 6 month time frame for the barrels to be built and sent from Spain. It turned into around a year and a half of frustration for him and although he likes the gun he'll never buy or recommend another due to the poor service by Kemen. As I understand things the us importer did what they could but the factory wasn't responsive.

As far as the design of the gun look to the Aramberri o/u that was built in the early 70's which in turn was a copy of Perazzi.

I think that some of the original Aramberri family members who were in the gun business before the Diarm fiasco are still in the trade with several of the Spanish makers today.

Parris

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