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 Post subject: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Could someone tell me how to measure LOP. Somewhere I read where you put the but of the gun in the ell bow socket then with arm and fingers straight the trigger should be at the trigger fingers first joint. Could someone tell me if this is correct.




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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:32 pm 
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That's one approximation.Another is,with the gun mounted,check the distance between your nose and your thumb.They should be two or three finger widths apart.
Actual length of pull on the gun is the distance between the front face of the trigger and the centre/rear face of the recoilpad/butt plate.


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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:33 pm 
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The measurement on my gun is 14 3/8" but doing the way I described above says that it is at least 1/2" short. I am getting ready to install an adjustable but plate and I figured that it was a good time to get the LOP fixed with the right thickness on the pad.


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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:40 pm 
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For every 1/4" inch change at the stock end will move your face forwards or backwards 1"

Your trigger hand thumbs first knuckle and the tip of your nose should be about the width of two fingers. Some people like the tip of their nose almost touching their knuckle. A distance of 2" to almost touching is a rough starting point.



Here is a link to another thread about LOP.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=141987&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

EMaki


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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:07 pm 
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Measuring the distance from the crook in your elbow to where your trigger finger is in relation a gun stock is a crude appoximation for LoP. The best way is to check the distance from the first nuckle of the thumb of the trigger hand to the tip of your nose and it should be about 1.5 inches.

My target gun is about 5/8" longer than my field guns as I usually wear more clothes as I hunt. If you make a stock longer it will often affect all of the other stock measurments so you should head back to the patterning board.

As you tinker with LoP you also should check the pitch. If you are doing it yourself go slow and take a little off at a time and see how it feels.

Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:07 pm 
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emaki wrote:
For every 1/4" inch change at the stock end will move your face forwards or backwards 1"

How is that possible? Wouldn't a 1/4" adjustment move where your cheek rests on the stock 1/4"?

Anyway, another method is having someone measuring the distance from your nose to thumb while the gun is mounted. Generally, it should be between 1 1/2"-2". A shorter LOP may increase felt recoil while a longer LOP may cause the butt of the gun to snag during mounting. Mostly, it is a matter of personal preferance and how the gun feels and balances to you.


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 Post subject: Re: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:08 pm 
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emaki wrote:
For every 1/4" inch change at the stock end will move your face forwards or backwards 1"


Are you sure about that? That means the 1" difference in the LOP between 14" and 15" will move my face 4" further back. :?: I don't think that's correct, and perhaps not even possible...


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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:13 pm 
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I have learned that I like a gun that is just a tad too long for me and that I can move my hands back on the stock just a little and not get snagged. Also a little clear nail polish on the heel of the stock really keeps me from catching on my shirt or vest.

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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:47 pm 
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Stack washers under the recoil pad screws and stretch it out to find out what works best. If that doesn't work, use electricians tape to attach anything that works, another recoil pad, etc. to the current pad to add length. Mineral spirits will clean the sticky off with no damage to anything. There's no need to guess when it is so easy to figure it out.
Dave


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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:58 pm 
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My understanding is, its a 1:3 ratio. At any rate, be carefull, a little added or removed makes a big change, and a longer LOP means a slower gun.

bd


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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:39 pm 
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I've been told the crook of the elbow thing for a long time and I don't see how it's relevant.

Gun fit is a funny thing and nothing to be taken lightly. A more important thing is are you hitting what you're pointing at? Another is, are you comfortable?

Try this, while holding your gun unmounted, get a good focus on something at a distance you will be using your gun. Close your eyes. Mount the gun, eyes still closed. Open your eyes. Do you have the proper sight picture? Is the object still in line with your sight picture? Do you have to adjust your head to get the proper sight picture? Are you comfortable?

These are all questions that should be answered before you start to change things. You must have a consistent mount first. If you don't, you're just spinning your wheels trying to fix something that isn't broken.

If you do decide to add an adjustable butt plate, why not get one that allows the LOP to be adjusted as well? Here's the one I'm thinking of adding; Graco Adjustable Butt Plate. It's only a little more expensive, but will be worth it in the end. Plus this way you can compensate for thick/thin clothing.

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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:07 pm 
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1/4" increase or decrease in LOP will put your face 1/4" further or closer to the trigger and in the same place in relation to the butt.

The elbow thing was never an accurate way to determine what you need for LOP. the 1 1/2" +/- from your thumb to your nose works.

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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:31 pm 
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Chic, does that hold true for a non-parallel stock too?

bd


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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:38 pm 
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The way to check your length of pull is to set up a target about 20 yard away and put a dot in the center of a piece of freezer paper. Put in your tightest choke, gun down, concentrate on the dot, mount the gun to your cheek and pull the trigger. Shoot at the target a couple of times. This will tell you where you are hitting. As your eye is the rear sight you should get the idea where you are shooting and which way you have to be on the stock. This is usually easier if you go to a stock fitter in your area so he/she can watch how you shoot and where you mount the gun to your cheek. When I would mount a gun without firing it I would be forward on the stock and when I shot I would keep my head neck straighter and my cheek would mount closer to the rear of the stock. I had to have 2 3/4 inches added to my stock and I am happy where the gun is shooting now.


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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:38 pm 
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What you're seeking is the correct LOP for you and that is a difficult question because LOP is affected by other dimensions and the gun mount. One involved dimension is pitch. Another is the drop at the heel.

The height of the gun mount, like the drop at the heel, affects how upright the head and neck are with when the gun is mounted. This affects how far forward (ideally, not at all) the neck must be leaned to place the cheek on the stock's comb and this forward neck lean has an effect on the distance between the nose and thumb.

It the relationships of gun mount and other stock dimensions that affect the LOP and make it a somewhat difficult dimension to adjust or set correctly.

If that doesn't complicate things enough, the stance that is used also has an effect on LOP. A square stance with the shooter facing targets more directly requires a shorter LOP than does a more oblique or edge-on stance. (That is why you see shooters using a gun with a stock that is too long for them shooting their guns like a rifle with an oblique stance.

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Last edited by Rollin Oswald on Mon May 05, 2008 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 7:26 pm 
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BD, in a word ...... yes.

People are making waaaaay too much of this. What sportclayshooter really needed to do was change the drop in the comb, not lengthen the stock.

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 Post subject: Re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:52 am 
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what if you have a really long nose?


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 Post subject: Re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:01 pm 
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I think people make a lot of noise about LOP. If your nose is generally two to three fingers away from your thumb, it's close enough. I think where a lot of people get messed up is with the DOH and DOC because of their physical features.

I'm a big boy and my face rides the stock very far forward when I mount a gun. I need a really long LOP. However, I can also shoot a SxS with a lot of DOH and DOC and a LOP that almost anybody can shoot. It's really all about the sight picture, is your eye on the proper place on the rib?

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 Post subject: Re: re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Rollin Oswald wrote:
...The height of the gun mount, like the drop at the heel, affects how upright the head and neck are with when the gun is mounted. This affects how far forward (ideally, not at all) the neck must be leaned to place the cheek on the stock's comb and this forward neck lean has an effect on the distance between the nose and thumb...

If that doesn't complicate things enough, the stance that is used also has an effect on LOP. A square stance with the shooter facing targets more directly requires a shorter LOP than does a more oblique or edge-on stance. (That is why you see shooters using a gun with a stock that is too long for them shooting their guns like a rifle with an oblique stance.


Alot of the "young guns" shooting today have a very aggressive stance which alters their LOP. Travis Mears is a prime example:
Image

The stock on his Beretta is fairly long, very nice piece done by Wenig---you can see that his thumb is actually behind his nose not two fingers width in front!! Also note that he's attached moleskin to the comb to raise it some.

The stock in the crook of the elbow trick is like putting a dime in the muzzle to see if it's a full choke--it basically tells you little to nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: ***** LENGTH OF PULL *****
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:00 pm 
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I still consider myself a novice hunter and have been duck hunting now for a couple of years. I want to improve my accuracy and feel that my shotgun needs to be 'fit' for me. Reading this thread about lenght of pull, I'm convinced that my stock is too long.

I measured the gun's (original Super Black Eagle) LOP and it measures 13.75". When I mount the gun to my cheek, I measure the distance between the tip of my nose and the knuckle on my shooting thumb at 3.25". That's obviously more than the recommended 1" to 2" (read somewhere else that it should no more than a 1/2"). Let's put it this way, I can get all four of my fingers between my nose and shooting knuckle. (When I measure the distance between my elbow and first joint in my trigger finger, I measure that distance to just under 13".)

Is it as simple of taking the gun to a gunsmith and having him shorten the stock by 2" (+/-)? Thanks for your advice?




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