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 Post subject: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:21 am 
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I have read a few posts on this. Here is my $.02 worth and it's probably not worth that.

Citori Process
There are a few ways to change your Citori Ejectors to Extractors. The first is to disable or remove the Ejector Trip Rods. This requires removal of the stock and removing parts from the receiver. I don't recommend this unless you are familiar with the trigger group. The second is to remove the Ejector Sears. This can be done without removing the stock because the sears are in the fore stock. However, you have to drift out the sear pin. This pic is not very good, but it shows the sear pin clearly. If you're not an expert with a drift pin, you run a good chance of marking up your gun trying to get this pin out. The opposite side is not flat and would be more difficult to drift out from the inside.
Image
It can be done, but it's not easy and would be just as difficult to re-install if you wanted to.

You could just remove the Ejector Springs. That works, but then the shell is only lifted a tiny amount and is difficult to remove from the chamber, especially if you're wearing gloves.

Here's an example. The top barrel has no ejector spring and the bottom has the 1911 spring. See how the top is only lifted a small amount?
Image

The easiest method is to replace the Ejector Spring. Fortunately for us the 1911 Firing Pin Return Spring is exactly the right size. I got two of them here:Brownells - 1911 Firing Pin Return Spring for about $10 including shipping.

Simply replace the stock Ejector Spring with the 1911 spring and it will lift the shell lightly enough to not eject it and still elevate it enough to easily lift out.

Here are two pics of both springs; installed and removed. Original on the left and the 1911 spring on the right:
ImageImage
As you can see the 1911 spring is longer but much less stout. You could cut a few coils off the 1911 spring, but you don't have to. To remove the stock spring just rotate the Ejector Hammer toward the spring. Hold on to the spring as it will come out with some force. If you just hold it between your finger and thumb, it won't hurt you and it won't go flying.

The beauty of this modification is that it is easily reversible. And, all this can be done at the range. The only tool you would need is a #2 Phillips to remove the Forearm Bracket from the Fore Stock. Remember that the stock spring is stout and while it can be put back in without any tools, it's not that easy and will require some force on your part. Still, if I can do it, you can too.

Note:
The older Citori guns have slotted screws in the forearm. They are soft screws and have a very narrow slot. You will need a special screwdriver or at least be able to grind a regular one down. I recommend this set if you're going to do regular work on older Citori guns:http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=223597



Cynergy Process
The process for the Cynergy is even easier. All you have to do is remove the fore stock, then drop out the Ejector Sears and voila the ejectors become extractors.

To do this just remove the fore stock, lift up on the end of the black lever indicated by the green circle, this releases the tension on the sear, then tip the stock toward the ground. The sear, I'm pointing to it with the pen, will drop off its pivot pin.
Image
Note the small dimple indicated by the red circle. This was on the inside of my gun. This is important because each sear is unique to either the left or right and you don't want to mix them up. Also, see the small Allan screw? Don't futz with it. That screw sets the sear point and you don't want to mess with it; SO DON'T!

Note about Sear Screw wrote:
Remember the part about not futzing with the small Allan screw on the sear? How could you forget, it's one sentence ago.

Anyway, that screw serves two purposes; it sets the ejector timing and it helps retain the sear. Adjusting it will determine when the ejectors fire. Adjust it too far and the ejectors fire before the gun is fully open. This is bad. Adjust it too far the other way and they won't fire at all.

Back the screw out too far and you have another problem; the sear falls out too easily. It should have at least a little pressure on that black lever just under it. That helps to keep it in the fore arm. It would suck to have put your gun in its case at the range only to find the sear missing when you get home. That sear is not inexpensive and you have to order the screw separately. AND, just to put a fine point on it, that screw takes a .035mm Allen wrench. Dimes to dollars says you don't have one of those in your tool box and can't get one at the corner hardware store.

So again, the best advice I can give about that screw is to leave it alone. But if you just have to adjust it, be very very careful.



The beauty of this modification is that it's easily reversible. In fact it's so easy, you could actually do it while on the 16yrd line of Trap and not miss your next shot. (but don't do that :wink: )


Anyway, there it is. Now you know how easy it is to change your ejectors to extractors. We can argue the value of this some other time. I just wanted to put the knowledge I've found scattered around this site in one place. All of what I've posted here, except the pictures, was found on Shotgunworld. I wouldn't have been able to do it without the help of those who posted all this before me.

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Last edited by Rastoff on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:14 am, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:23 am 
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Good post.

Has anyone "looked" at or inquired about the parts that Browning uses, in one of their models, that allows you to extract or eject? From the picture, it looks like you turn "something" with a tool and it activates or deactivates the ejection function.


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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:18 am 
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I did this to my Cynergy several weeks ago and am tickled pink. Beats ejecting them into my gut and/or trying to catch them as they go by.

Wes


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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:00 am 
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To make them "switchable" would require some metalwork. With a little ingenuity it could probably be done, but this is a thing best left to the smiths.

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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:08 am 
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Rastoff:

Just out of curiousity, do you have any other Cynergy tips and tricks?

Mine is still a little new (to me)


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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 11:40 am 
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Excellent info and presentation. Sure do wish that I had a digital camera :)

Just one elaboration fo those trying this for the first time. When the ejector sears are removed on the Citori (I don't know the Cynergy, but it's probably the same) the forearm will have to be somewhat forced into place on assembly. That's because you're pushing against the uncocked ejector hammers and their springs.

Consequently, it makes sense to lighten the ejector springs as much as possible. It will make it easier to install the forearm and also makes it easier to open the gun (mine now virtually drops open under just the weight of the barrels when I open the release lever).

I ground down the replacement springs so that they are just sufficiently long to provide enough tension to keep everything together when the forearm is off the gun. Makes life easier all around if you break your gun down for transport/storage.


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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:50 pm 
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Do the 1911 springs work for conversion on the sub gauges as well? I have a 20 gauge 525 that I would like to convert to extract rather than eject.


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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:32 am 
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tdWesbo,
I only have one other Cynergy trick, but it's a good one. I'm not sure what the right term is, but you can adjust the "tension" on the action. What I mean by that is that you can adjust how loose or tight your gun is to open and close.

I haven't made pictures of this procedure yet, but I can. PM me and I'll spell out the whole story. If there is enough interest, I'll post it here or make a new post. CurlyNoHair gets the credit for figuring that one out.

Bill_in_TX,
Thanks for mentioning the difficulty in re-assembling the gun. It's not really a problem, but it's worth mentioning. This is another reason why I like replacing the springs in stead.

golden,
I don't know. However, if your ejector hammers look the same as the ones in my pictures, I don't see why it wouldn't work. If the 1911 springs are too strong to get what you want, you can always cut a few coils off.

Once again, the beauty of the spring replacement is the ease of reversing it back to stock.

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 Post subject: Re: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:05 pm 
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Rastoff wrote:
tdWesbo,
I only have one other Cynergy trick, but it's a good one. I'm not sure what the right term is, but you can adjust the "tension" on the action. What I mean by that is that you can adjust how loose or tight your gun is to open and close.

I haven't made pictures of this procedure yet, but I can. PM me and I'll spell out the whole story. If there is enough interest, I'll post it here or make a new post. CurlyNoHair gets the credit for figuring that one out.

Bill_in_TX,
Thanks for mentioning the difficulty in re-assembling the gun. It's not really a problem, but it's worth mentioning. This is another reason why I like replacing the springs in stead.

golden,
I don't know. However, if your ejector hammers look the same as the ones in my pictures, I don't see why it wouldn't work. If the 1911 springs are too strong to get what you want, you can always cut a few coils off.

Once again, the beauty of the spring replacement is the ease of reversing it back to stock.

I am sure that somebody figgered it out before me, I just wrote about what I found so somebody else didn't have to figger it out.

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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 7:49 pm 
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I kind of like the ejectors. I think it is cool to see them things shoot out the back. When I want to keep the empty hull I just put my hand in its way to stop it. My sons BT 99 only extracts them and he seems to like that. I would bet it is all in what you get used to.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:41 pm 
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goose2 wrote:
I kind of like the ejectors. I think it is cool to see them things shoot out the back. When I want to keep the empty hull I just put my hand in its way to stop it. My sons BT 99 only extracts them and he seems to like that. I would bet it is all in what you get used to.
I personally have no use for ejectors, but recognize that it is a personal issue.

There is, however, one major down side to ejectors as they are implemented on the Citoris. I had an extended chat with one of the managers/supervisors at the Browning service center when I was going to convert my Citori to extraction only. (as an aside, he was surprisingly forthcoming with info on the different ways to do it and their pros/cons -- none of that stupid "don't mess with our precision firearm" BS) His reaction was along the lines of "great!! you'll really increase the gun's reliability. About 80% of our mechanical service work is for broken ejectors" That force that shoots the hulls out the back so stoutly puts a significant shock load on the ejectors themselves.


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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:09 am 
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Will the same procedure of switching ejector springs for the 1911 springs work to change an early BT-99 from ejector to extractor
as well as for the Citoris?


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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:57 pm 
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golden,
I don't know. I've never looked at the internal workings of a BT-99. However, I can tell you this, if the spring is the same as the Citori, then it would work. But that goes without saying.

I doubt they are the same.

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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:58 am 
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Nice post Rastoff, thanks for doing that.

I am on here off and on, but I have never seen that easy conversion for the ejectors on the cynergy. I did it to mine and it took all of 2 minutes.

Thanks again.

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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:07 am 
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We really need to sticky this to the top of the forum. Great pictures and description for all the Browning O/U owners.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:09 pm 
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Jbuckmark wrote:
We really need to sticky this to the top of the forum. Great pictures and description for all the Browning O/U owners.

I second that motion. That way I won't have to dig it up again later. :D

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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:46 pm 
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I did it on a 1992 Ciltori 20 ga. I used a 1911 spring listed as hi-power or something a little stronger than the normal spring. Try it first with the spring uncut, if is is still two powerful then cut a coil at a time ( and File smooth). Mine works great. I don't think taking the sears out is a good idea. You can make a tool by filing a v notch in an old screwdriver.


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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:45 pm 
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Great info. Rastoff.

My first post after lurking for 6 months.

I just bought a new Cynergy and waiting for the Calif. 10 day period. Not like Idaho !!!

Since mine is new, any idea about voiding the warranty if I change mine to extractors?

Also like your avatar. Spent 10 months in Viet Nam before being med-evaced after wounded while fighting the hills above Khe Sahn.


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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:21 pm 
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I'm no lawyer so, you'll have to ask Browning about the warranty issue. Still, I can't imagine changing to extractors would void the warranty. There's actually a smaller chance of damage to the ejectors by doing the change.

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 Post subject: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:20 pm 
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What a slick solution! I just converted my Citori XS Skeet and it took all of two minutes. Thanks for posting it.


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