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 Post subject: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:21 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:10 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Nashville
Need a little help understanding the uses for various Downrange 12 ga 1 oz wads.

I have been using Claybuster CB1100-12 Pink 1oz wads for about 5 yrs in both STS and AA hulls, loading Hodgdon Clays in a MEC 9000H with either a #32 (STS) or a #33 Bushing (AA).
I have always been somewhat dissatisfied with the 1-3% puffed up Crimps on the STSs or the small hole in the middle of the crimp on the AAs. I recently had an opportunity to buy out a reloader who had stopped shooting. In his odd array of materials were some old Windjammer wads, white 1 1/8 oz and yellow 1 oz. After reloading several thousand of them I decided that I liked the results better than the Claybusters. I was getting better, more consistent crimps. I believe that I am also getting less plastic fouling in my chokes.

My local supplier carries Downrange Products which I want to start using. But the Downrange product line is a bit confusing. Again, I will be using STS & AA hulls in 1 oz loads. What are the different considerations and uses of the following three Downrange wads: 1) XL-1 Purple 2) XL-1 Neon Green 3) DRA121 Pink. I understand that the Neon Green is designed as a 1 1/8 op wad but am told that it is also excellent in 1 oz AA hulls? I don't mind carrying inventory in two different wads if one or the other is superior in STS or AAs.

ALSO, I have a bunch of Kemen hulls which I might decide to reload. What Downrange wad would be appropriate in that hull ?

Who has used the wads and what can you advise me on?

Charlie Nash


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:34 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:03 pm
Posts: 196
Location: Texas
I have used both the neon green and the purple jammer wads with green dot and they both work great.The purple wads are 8 petal and can be a pain sometimes getting on rammer tube.Haven't used the other one yet.


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Charlienash,
First let me state that the Down Range line of wads are excellent and perform quite well. They also tend to not leave much plastic fouling.

The XL-1 Neon Green wad you speak of is a 1 oz. wad, not a 1-1/8 as you stated. It is a superb 1 oz wad in Remington cases as well as the older AA Compression formed cases. They also make a XL 1-1/8 oz. wad.


The newer AA HS cases have a slightly smaller capacity than the Remingtons and experience has shown that the Down Range DRA series wads are the better choice for these cases. They are made in 3 sizes. The DRA-12 Pink for 1 oz. loads, the DRA-12 White for 1-1/8 oz. loads, and the DRA-12 Yellow, for 1-1/4 oz loads. These wads are excellent for the new style AA HS cases.

Let me note that either of these wads WILL work in either AA or Rem. cases, but they work best as outlined above.

DLM

PS: For the Keman hulls you mentioned, you need a wad designed for straight walled cases. The wads available are the Federal wads, 12SO's for 1 oz. loads and 12S3's for 1-1/8 oz. loads. Claybuster makes a clone of these wads, and Down Range makes a clone of the 12S3. DLM

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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:01 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:10 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Nashville
DLM,
The following is a quote from the Gamaliel Catalog:

Quote:
Down Range 12 Gauge XL-1 - 1 bag
Item Code: DRXL1
This neon green 12 gauge wad is produced for primary use in the Federal Gold Medal hull with 1 1/8 ounce loads. It can be used as a 1 ounce load in Remington STS and Winchester AA hulls. (Bag Contains 500 Wads


That is why I referred to the Neon Green as primarily a 1 1/8 wad. Would this be incorrect?
CHG


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:28 pm 
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Location: Alvin, Texas
Charlienash,

There's a conflict there with reality, but trust me. It's a p---poor wad for 1-1/8 oz loads in the straight walled Federal cases, and is, per Down Ranges load book, a replacement wad for the WAA12SL, which is a 1-oz. wad, for tapered wall cases.

Gamaliel's marketing Dept. simply is in error on this. If you still doubt my word call Kevin Lewis, Down Ranges Plant Manager on 402-463-4315.

I regularly use these wads and know of what I speak. They work perfectly and crimp perfectly in the uses I explained before.

One personal observation. You seem to be set on using 1-1/8 oz. loads. We have proven beyond all possible doubt that a 1 oz. load will do anything a 1-1/8 oz. will do, and in most cases a 7/8 oz. load is more than adequate. With the very high cost of shot these days, you would be well advised to use loads not exceeding 1 oz. of shot. There isn't a clay target out there that 1 oz. of shot won't break, nor are there many cases where 1 oz. loads aren't very adequate on game.

The only real gain in a 1-1/8 oz. load is recoil, which is undesirable from the git go.

DLM

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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:07 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:10 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Nashville
DLM,
No, I think you may have misunderstood my original post. I do not load 1 1/8 oz loads at all. I think they are a waste of lead. I load nothing but 1 oz. My confusion comes from the Gamaliel discription of the Neon Green as a 1 1/8 wad that "can be used in Remington 1 oz loads". I'm glad to hear you say that they are really a 1 oz wad. I'll attempt your suggestion of using the XL-1 in STS and the DRA121 Pink in the AA hulls. You have confirmed my though that I really need to use a different wad in STS and AA to get quality loads.

Have you tried the XL-1 Purple? What is its purpose? Is there some perceived advantage in using the 8 petal wad?
CHG


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 Post subject: Re: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:17 pm 
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charlienash wrote:
DLM,
No, I think you may have misunderstood my original post. I do not load 1 1/8 oz loads at all. I think they are a waste of lead. I load nothing but 1 oz. My confusion comes from the Gamaliel discription of the Neon Green as a 1 1/8 wad that "can be used in Remington 1 oz loads". I'm glad to hear you say that they are really a 1 oz wad. I'll attempt your suggestion of using the XL-1 in STS and the DRA121 Pink in the AA hulls. You have confirmed my though that I really need to use a different wad in STS and AA to get quality loads.

Have you tried the XL-1 Purple? What is its purpose? Is there some perceived advantage in using the 8 petal wad?
CHG

If the 8 petal XL-1 wad is like the 8 petal windjammer or CB lightning, it is there to satisfy the need of people to have something to scream cuss words at. Those narrow peals want to go up into the shot drop tube and cause the user grief. Allegedly the 8 petal wads open faster and get away from the shot, what you really have is advertizing clap-trap. But there are those that want them, so somebody makes them.
Personally I interchange all my wads into Rem and WW hulls without any issue whatsoever or even having to alter the press settings. The Pink dr-121 is a dreamwith 1 oz loads and stops the crimp pooching out. You may need to add a bit of pre-crimp to make enough plastic into the crimp to get the .055" depth of crimp that is suggested for best performance in all 12 Gauge hulls.

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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:29 pm 
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Location: Alvin, Texas
Charlienash,

The purple "Jammer" wad is simply an XL-1 with an 8 petal shot cup.

Some people have been brainwashed that the 8 petal design releases the shot cleaner and helps the shot release from the wad at barrel exit.

This was the old Windjammer design of shotcup. Their marketing group did a fantastic job of selling people on the idea, and it remains yet today for some.

Truth is that there isn't a bit of difference between them and the standard 4 petal wad, as far as performance is concerned. In the loading area, for me and most, they are a PITA, as there seems to always be a petal straying up the rammer tube, leaving a small area without protection from barrel scrub.

For those that want the 8 petal design, the purple Jammer is it. For the rest of the world it's the XL-1 Neon.

DLM

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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:57 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:58 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Hastings, Nebraska
Hello from the Great State of PA!!!


Tapered case: 1 oz. of shot

DRXL1 0R JAMMER XL1 (Same wad only the Jammer has and 8 petal shot cup) SAME LOAD DATA AS THE WAA12SL

clone / copy

DRA-12 = WAA12SL
DRRT12 = REMINGTON TARGET 12


Good night

Kevin @ 402-463-3415


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:14 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:57 pm
Posts: 206
Location: central california
Thanks for hanging with us, Kevin. And a big thank you for a great product! Love those DRXL-1's!


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:32 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:10 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Nashville
Kevin,
Does Gamaliel need to revisit their Description on the XL-1 Wads?
CharlieNash


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 25
Somebody please tell me that the DownRange XL1 (neon green), are O.K. to use in WinAA/WinAA-HS hulls. Or was I wrong to assume that they are equal or better than WAA12SL wads, and that they can be used in the Win hulls.
I've bought quite a few of the DownRange XL1's and loaded 50 hulls last night. I had a hell of a time tweaking my Mec 9000 as I think I had to make every adjustment on the machine to good looking shells. I've got material to load a few thousand shells.
These were my first shotshells I ever loaded. I was careful and believe I did put together safe shells provided the components were correct.

Win AA and Win AA-HS Hulls
Win 209 primers
1 oz. shot
DR XL1 Wads
21.0 grains of GreenDot powder

Come through for me Kevin, I'd like to know what you think.

Thanks,
Bruce


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:56 am
Posts: 1881
Location: Wisconsin
the XL-1 is fine for AA and AAHS hulls.

You may find that loading AA and AAHS hulls interchangeablly does not work the best as the AAHS has slightly less volume in it than does the old AA

And the AAHS requires a little more wad pressure, not much, but enough more to make sure the wad seats down past the lip of the base in the hull correctly.

Also might require a little different crimp adjustment.

These are what I have found to make thing go smoothly.

But once the slight tweeking is done I have not had any problems with using the wads in either hull.


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:52 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:48 pm
Posts: 203
From the DR site

Down Range XL-1


This neon green wad is produced for primary use in the Remington STS and Winchester AA hulls, with 1 ounce of shot. It can also be used as a 1 1/8 ounce load in Federal Gold Medal hulls.

We use only virgin plastics to assure quality and performance.

Please Note:

This wad maybe substituted for these popular wads.

WAA12SL, CB1100-12, Green Duster & Downrange Jammer XL-1


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:15 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:58 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Hastings, Nebraska
Hello Folks,


sorry for the delay in posting.....But I,m working at the PA state shoot and a holiday Inn office :roll


ashlyngr
I think the best thing is for you to call me @ 402-463-3415.

Kevin


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:30 pm 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:18 am
Posts: 186
Location: Anoka, MN
Hey Kevin!
How's PA State?
I like your wads.
I especially like the lime green 1oz 12ga and yellow 20ga wads. I also like the pink 12ga wad, but don't load as much 7/8 & 3/4oz as some of these guys.
Keep up the good work.
Paul


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 Post subject: Re: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:01 pm 
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Alliant Reloading wrote:
Hey Kevin!
How's PA State?
I like your wads.
I especially like the lime green 1oz 12ga and yellow 20ga wads. I also like the pink 12ga wad, but don't load as much 7/8 & 3/4oz as some of these guys.
Keep up the good work.
Paul

You really should try some of the reduced shot loads. You might be amazed at how well they break the birds. This would suggest that Data for Alliant powders and reduced shot charges, may be a good thing to have in your data charts. That could result in increased sales of you powder, if fans of other brands could not get data for those brands. Hmmm

:?: :?:

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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:40 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 25
Just spoke to Kevin from DownRange. He's a very professional person and assured me that I will be fine with the DR-XL line of wads installed in Win AA and Win AA/HS Hulls.
He also explained how to locate the crimp mark on the inside of the hull. Placing the top of edge of the hull at this mark will give me the proper wad height and pressure.
Good to go now.

Thanks Guys,
Bruce


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:39 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:10 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Nashville
Okay, this is new to me. What is the crimp mark on the inside of the Hull?


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 Post subject: re: Downrange 12 ga Wads
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:29 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 25
About 3/8" from the top of hull, look at where the factory crimp starts. There is a slight ring at where the plastic begins to bend as part of the crimp. It may be a sort of an optical illusion.

Bruce


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