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 Post subject: Winchester 1897 problems
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:35 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:59 am
Posts: 16
I picked up an 1897 take-down made in 1908 last week, that was cheap due to the action being incredibly stiff to work. You really have to force the slide handle to unlock the action however it does free off once it's moving.
Also when the magazine and barrel are locked in to place it wont allow shells to be pushed in to the magazine tube, however when the magazine is unlocked for removal it will.
The action is clean but dry so it's not an accumulation of old oil etc that is the cause.
Does anyone have any idea as to the reason for this and a solution to repairing it.
Thanks in advance mjohno




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 Post subject: re: Winchester 1897 problems
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:15 am 
Gunsmith
Gunsmith

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:48 pm
Posts: 568
Location: Prescott, Arizona
It's just about impossible to tell without seeing it, but my first guess is that it has been assembled incorrectly. I think the '97 is so called because it has 97 parts in it, all of which must be in their respective places and in alignment for the gun to function well.

Where are you located? The cowboy guns, including the Win. '97, are my first love. I'm actually looking for a lever-action AR-15. :lol:

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A gun in the hands of a free man frightens and angers the autocrat (government) not because he fears the power of the gun but, rather, the spirit of the man who holds it. - Anonymous

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 Post subject: re: Winchester 1897 problems
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:08 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 8:24 pm
Posts: 1140
Location: central PA
I have a 97 that dates from 1907 that is buttery smooth. I think that is the norm. I keep all the receiver slides and glides freely lubed. This also prevents wear. Take a Q tip and apply a coating of lube in and aaroud the bolt and all the cam and guide areas. If that fails find a good gunsmith who follows the cowboy action shooting circuit. Mine is a 24" cylinder choked "brush gun" that I still take out and bang around at skeet and have used for grouse. It is a gas to see that faces of some of the guys at the range when they see this thing coming.


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 Post subject: re: Winchester 1897 problems
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:40 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:59 am
Posts: 16
Thanks for the reply guys the gun has been refinished and doesn't look to have done much since so with luck they just put it back together incorrectly.

Unfortunately (lack of gunsmiths who understand old Winchester's and some of the most anti gun laws on the planet I live in England)

A dealer in the UK actually made a few lever action 9mm AR15 actions as a way to get round the semi-auto full bore ban in the UK but they never caught on.


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 Post subject: re: Winchester 1897 problems
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:40 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:59 am
Posts: 16
I pulled the gun apart and cleaned everything the only problem I can find is that the Cartridge Guide stops slightly short of its correct position. Any ideas?


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 Post subject: re: Winchester 1897 problems
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:55 am 
Gunsmith
Gunsmith

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:48 pm
Posts: 568
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Still, without being able to see the gun, it's near impossible to diagnose the problem. You mentioned a loading/feeding problem. It sounds like the magazine tube, along with the magazine plug and magazine plug stop, may be 180 deg. out of position.

Also, it could be that the action bar is worn, thereby not pulling the breach bolt home, thereby not allowing the carrier to reach its full height which will cause feeding/loading problems.

We're at a slight disadvantage being across the pond from one another. Is there, by chance, a Cowboy Action Shoot near you? In your situation, you need to see another working gun side by side to better SEE the problem.

I was working a shoot in Phoenix here in Arizona called Winter Range. An English fellow needed some work done to his '97. Nothing short of a Stilson was needed to fix his gun. Yours, I wager, won't need a Stilson to fix.

Cheerio!

_________________
A gun in the hands of a free man frightens and angers the autocrat (government) not because he fears the power of the gun but, rather, the spirit of the man who holds it. - Anonymous

http://saberrivergunsmithing.com
Cerakote™ Certified Applicator


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 Post subject: Re: re: Winchester 1897 problems
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:49 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:59 am
Posts: 16
SRG wrote:
Still, without being able to see the gun, it's near impossible to diagnose the problem. You mentioned a loading/feeding problem. It sounds like the magazine tube, along with the magazine plug and magazine plug stop, may be 180 deg. out of position.

Also, it could be that the action bar is worn, thereby not pulling the breach bolt home, thereby not allowing the carrier to reach its full height which will cause feeding/loading problems.

We're at a slight disadvantage being across the pond from one another. Is there, by chance, a Cowboy Action Shoot near you? In your situation, you need to see another working gun side by side to better SEE the problem.

I was working a shoot in Phoenix here in Arizona called Winter Range. An English fellow needed some work done to his '97. Nothing short of a Stilson was needed to fix his gun. Yours, I wager, won't need a Stilson to fix.

Cheerio!


Just out of interest if the action bar was worn would this allow the gun to load and eject shells without pulling the trigger. I ask this as if you push the shell lifter back in place and load it with dummies the gun can be worked without problem.
Would a picture of the end of the action bar be of any use.
Thank you in advance for any help.


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 Post subject: re: Winchester 1897 problems
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:54 pm 
Gunsmith
Gunsmith

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:48 pm
Posts: 568
Location: Prescott, Arizona
There's a little piece called the action bar lock that lives on the left side of the lifter, or carrier. When the hammer is drawn back, the action bar lock engages the end of the action bar, thus not allowing the action bar, or forend, to be worked until the hammer drops or the action release button on the right side is depressed. If you can work the action without depressing the action bar release, then your action bar or action bar lock is broken or missing.

You really need to have the gun disassembled and inspected by someone that knows these guns as you have guessed. Wish I could see it. Can you break the gun down at all?

Tell you what, if you dare, cock the hammer. Remove the little screw located to the left of the hammer. This is the carrier pivot lock screw. Now, carefully pry the lifter downward from underneath the bolt. Slide the carrier pivot out either direction. Lay the gun on its left side. There is a little screw just forward of the trigger guard on the right side. Remove it. This is the carrier travel limit screw. You should be able to slide the carrier out and down forward. Look on the left side of the carrier. There is a long narrow bar that sticks out proud of the side of the carrier and pivots on a teeny little screw. This is the action bar lock. It should run nearly 3/4 of the length of the carrier. The end that sticks out should engage the action bar end with the hammer back.

Try this http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Model97down.html



_________________
A gun in the hands of a free man frightens and angers the autocrat (government) not because he fears the power of the gun but, rather, the spirit of the man who holds it. - Anonymous

http://saberrivergunsmithing.com
Cerakote™ Certified Applicator


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